Who's going to PAY for it??

[r.reid]

That is great that they are self suffecient and making a go of it in places in Alberta

But in Saskatchewan for every 1 "success" story there are 10 miserable failures, that nobody wants to talk about. I too have seen the results of Indian bands trying to farm and run cows. The smashed combines, the dead cows, the empty grain bins, the broken fences that remain after it failed. Makes one throw-up.

Someone paid for it.

Question: Emerald 1, does the Indian band you speak of pay income tax like their non-native counterparts? If not then why?

You know what's really sad? It is the Indians that do try to get ahead and then the other "dead-beat" Indians try to bring them down.

[cakadu]

I should have been a little more specific rreid about the guy having cattle to avoid paying taxes. It is not too likely that he is out there in the middle of the night pulling calves, he likely has someone custom doing it for him. It is the person who many on this site have said shouldn't be in the cattle business because he is the "hobby" farmer and doesn't really care if he/she ever makes any money on cattle. The poor fellow out there in the middle of the night in all kinds of weather is often trying to make a living solely from the farm.

What sorts of resources are there in Sask to help the natives? What sort of effort is being made in each of the communities? From what you describe, there appears to be a significant difference between our two provinces, some of which can be attributed to the wealth that comes from the oil revenue.

On the other hand, there are bands that live in abject poverty because there is no treaty money, no oil revenue and no hope for where they are. How do we help those people become more productive and most importantly, value themselves?

[cakadu]

The natives that seem to fall through the cracks here in AB are the ones that leave the reserves or do not have treaty status. Many of those young people go to the larger centres and some do get involved with the wrong type of lifestyle. The problems on reserves with families are usually due to drug and alcohol abuse....but the native population certainly does not have a monopoly on those vices !!!

[r.reid]

Cakadu and Emerald 1...You are totally missing my point.

Why should they need oil $$$ or treaty $$$ to make it. Is it because they are different?? Is it because they are stupid and can't work??? NO, it isn't. It is just become to easy to sit by the mail box and wait for that free check to come.

It is attitudes like yours that are making them the way they are.

Nobody appreciates anything if you just give it to them. Because then they just become to expect it (like now). They must EARN it.

Cakadu, you want to know what is here to "help" them become better.
1. Free schooling (a doctor, lawyer, rocket scientist, whatever).
2. Money to live on while they go to school
3. Free (reserve) fully equipt housing.
4. Job priority based on race (quota system).

Probably similar in Alberta???

There should be no need of the problems that we now face NO NEED OF IT.

[cakadu]

There will always be those that try to pull others down, no matter what you do. I agree emrald, having problems with drugs and alcohol is not limited to a particular race, color, social standing or wealth. It happens in the best of families and more often than one might think.

Anyone that gets a hand up at the right time generally goes on to do better. Sadly, there are those that don't have anyone there to give them a hand, a kind word or help of any sort.

The solutions have to be generated with a great deal of input from the natives - without that, we will once again be telling them what we think is right. They should be allowed to determine what is right for themselves.

[cakadu]

The oil money and the treaty money are what have lead to some of the problems - I agree with you there.

If you remove any incentive, then there are problems, no matter who you are.

Many of the younger generation have had "things" given to them because their parents could afford it, the kids wanted it and it's easier to provide things than what kids need and that is stability, boundaries and most of all knowing that they are loved. We have seen a whole host of societal problems arising because many kids today expect things and don't recognize or appreciate the value of working for them. I'm not saying that all kids are bad, in fact the opposite as there are some really great kids out there.

We must seek first to understand (and this could be cultural differences, the feelings that you get when you've been treated poorly for many years or even your entire life etc.) and then help them to make lasting changes. All of us want to feel good about ourselves.

[r.reid]

OH Yeah I forgot about

5. free prescription meds (including most narcotics)
6. eye care.

Tell me how it can continue??

[r.reid]

Cakadu what are you saying here?? First you say:

"On the other hand, there are bands that live in abject poverty because there is no treaty money, no oil revenue and no hope for where they are.

Then you say:

"The oil money and the treaty money are what have lead to some of the problems - I agree with you there."

Well? Which is it Good or Bad?

[cakadu]

There are bands that live without any money and they have problems and there are bands, particularly here in Alberta, that live with a lot of money and have problems.

I don't think it is a case of good or bad it just is and we are going to have to find workable solutions for it. Nor do I think it is all cut and dried - there are a lot of grey areas here. I've been told recently by a friend about all the native people she has been working with that are trying to make a difference with the aboriginal youth and they are succeeding. It has taken many, many decades for it to deteriorate to the state it has. It will take more than just a year or two to get it fixed.

For me, it is about seeing them as people first and wanting to help empower people to be the best that they can.

Now, if they don't want the help, that is a different story, but most people want to feel good about themselves and who they are. Many have no idea who they are, as do many of us have no clue as to who we really are unless we work at it every day.

[r.reid]

Fair enough.

But when do you say "O.K. that's it, your on your own now".

Casinos aren't going to give them any great service. But that's what they want. And they'll fight "tooth and nail" to get one.

[r.reid]

r.reid, question for you . Which do you think costs more to Canadians, the dollars spent on natives or the Senate ?

[cowman]

I would suggest as long as you provide the ghetto(reservation) you are going to get people living in the ghetto?
I know an East Indian who has done pretty well at business. He told me when he first came to Canada he lived in Vancouver. When he got married and started a family he decided to get out and come to Alberta. His reason: He wanted his kids to be Canadians...not East Indians! As long as they lived in a straight East Indian community his kids would not become really integrated. He said he never regretted that move. His kids speak English and they are no different than other Canadian kids. Their friends are every color and race of the world. His reasoning: If I wanted to stay in India, I would have stayed there!
As long as the reserves are there, there will be little incentive for our natives to become Canadians? All this BS about preserving cultures is just that...BS! The myth that they lived in some kind of utopia is just that...a myth! Read Anthony Hendays journal about his travels in early Alberta and how the natives were in abject poverty and starvation. Real history...not modern BS history?
I do agree that our government in the past did the natives a grave injustice by turning them into wards of the state. They continue to make it worse everyday by telling them they can't make it in the big bad real world and throwing more money at them.
And emerald I would guess Indian Affairs spends many times more money than the senate does, but enlighten us?