Uncle Paul's Liberals

[gwynplaine]

I am so sick of Paul Martin. Typical Liberal, though, as long as the T's are crossed and the I's dotted on the treaty, the work is done. No concept, whatsoever, of life beyond the Podium/Soapbox he so self-righteously mounts to appease the knee-jerk reaction society we live in. From Gun control, to Kyoto, Violence against Women, to Violence against Mounties. And It all makes for great speeches from the Pulpit and Podium, with dramatic language and exciting rhetoric for a 30 second soundbite on the evening news.

Dig THIS:
http://www.liberal.ca/news_e.aspx?id=1141

Liberal "News". "Escalating Gun violence?" For Whom? Asian/Arab gangs? There's essentially no illegal gun violence in Canada, for people NOT linked to organized crime.
Harper's Response:
"Conservative leader Stephen Harper, meanwhile, issued a statement Thursday saying he supports tough gun control. He added that a Conservative government would:

-crack down on illegal gun use;
-stop the flow of illegal guns at our border; and
-bring in mandatory minimum prison sentences.

"The Liberals have done none of these things," said Harper in the statement. "They must take responsibility for the growth in gun crime on their watch. Gun crime has spun out of control because they have failed to do anything to reduce gun crime."".

Spun out of control? Mr. Harper has lost my support, if it matters. At best he's proven himself a Blue Liberal. No real platform, just Liberal Lite. Or maybe Liberal Extra, judging by the "5% GST" business.

When can I get a passport for the New Country, Cowman? I've lost faith in my Fellow Canadians, and no longer want to follow them down.

[silverback]

What are you talking about?? How is what Harper said a bad thing?? What is the problem??

He is saying that we should punish the people who commit crimes with guns, period. How does that make him a blue liberal??

Do you even realize that they have pledged to eliminate the long gun registry?? Does that matter to you? Before you get too holy on your platform, do some research.

[gwynplaine]

I think you may have missed the point of my (somewhat disorganized) posting. I was referring to dramatization of non-issues, and the lack of a "small-c" conservative policy.

And my research, mr silverback, into the Conservative platform has demonstrated nothing new or conservative. However, please correct me if I'm wrong, and show me where I can find the background I'm so obviously lacking.

[gwynplaine]

For some reason, I feel the need to qualify the opinion I expressed above.

My perfect Canada would have me here, in Alberta. Paying far less income tax, so that I might have the disposable income to provide for myself and those dependant on me. Driving a vehicle in which I had the right to choose whether or not I wear a seat belt. Hunting the backcountry with a rifle in my hands that may or may not have its serial number in a file in Ottawa, as I saw fit, and having the legal right to own (and defend) property.

While at the same time, having no concern in my mind whatsoever about what other people are doing in their bedrooms, watching on their TV, or who they're praying to in their churches. Also, with a federal government that is concerned merely with defending us from invasion and international trade inequity.

Hence, I support no federal party, and maintain my skepticism of them all.

[silverback]

And again, what Conservative party platform prevents you from reaching those goals?

You can vote or not vote how you like, but I don't understand what you do not see in a conservative gov't? The only way to change anything is to get into office and show people they are not a scary thing. Perhaps you are saying they do not have the reform party platform anymore?

[ivbinconned]

I one sense g-plaine is right (if the Conservatives win a majority, Ontario will rule) although Harper could have been clearer in his response.

[cowman]

What could Harper do? If he comes out as a redneck he can kiss his butt goodbye! Got no choice but to play the game?
Even today, with all the watered down Conservative principles, the people of Ontario are suspicious of the Conservative party...mainly due to Harper! In reality they want "Liberal Lite" minus the blatant corruption and theft! Sorry gwynnplane, your politics just won't wash down east. And that is a sad thing because I think what you believe in pretty well reflects the western perspective? The reality is we are a very distinct society out here...we have a totally different way of viewing things than down east?
It has always been my firm belief that to live the way we want to we need a seperate country. And finally I see people coming around to that way of thinking!
If the Liberals win the insanity continues and a lot more westerners will move into the fold? If the Conservatives win I can see Quebec moving to leave and that might be a good thing? It might balance the country in a more meaningful way? It also might show us the way out of Canada?
Right now we need a strong leader in Alberta to start the ball rolling and an "incident" to get it going? If the Liberals get in and make the energy grab they must have to satisfy Quebec, then our time is at hand! I suspect BC will follow very rapidly and Saskatchewan not much later.

[gwynplaine]

Nothing specific, silverback, prevents me from reaching my goals... But when a senior conservative party strategist says "We Will Do Anything To Get Elected", it more or less proves they are willing to water down any semblance of conservative ideology, and continue to venerate the Sacred Socialist Cows of Canada, that are in effect ruining her. Doubly, it increases the Eastern fears of the hated "Hidden Agenda", and rightly so, because I surely HOPE they're fostering a hidden agenda.

Now cowman, we've butted heads before, here, mostly over semantics, but I think we're mostly of the same mind. I however, am a proud Canadian, and would prefer to stay in Canada, obviously with more independance. This however, may no longer be a viable option, as you've expressed so many times.

[cowman]

Well gwynnplane, I don't consider myself a conservative, never have, more of a Libertarian? From what you say I suspect you probably could be described the same way?
Now I wonder, if not the Conservatives...then who would you consider as a party that best promotes your ideals? Would you say it is the Liberals or the NDP or the Greens? Who will give you the most freedom to live your life how you see fit?
Maybe none of the above? If that is the case then what do you do? Do you stay away from the polls and just say to hell with them all? It would seem that is about what 40% of the population did last time.
You say you love Canada and would like to see Canada stay together with some more independence for the regions? I don't see that happening? Even on a very minor scale?
When the people of Alberta elected two senators how did our Liberal masters treat that? I mean we elected two guys to a basically symbolic role and the "king" can't even appoint them? I thought this was supposed to be a democracy?
Have the eastern dominated Liberals ever let us get out of their grip? If we start to get a few bucks and lure business into our region, what do they do...NEP! Steal our money and shut down our economy...for the "National" good of course, always the "National good"?
As long as these dogs are running the show we are never going to have any sort of freedom...they will always be holding the leash, ready to choke us down if we get too far ahead.
Maybe Harper and the Conservatives will be no better, but in reality what do we have to lose? A party with a strong base in the west and a leader who proposed a stronger more independent Alberta or a Liberal Mafia from Quebec...you get to choose?

[gwynplaine]

I concur, cowman, that there is no other choice. I will vote conservative, because they are closest to my ideology. As a card-carrying Conservative, I've participated in the last 3 rounds of leadership elections, and Mr Harper was never my choice. I was actually in the Orchard camp, prior to the 'merger'. (so you see, silverback, most of my research into Party Platform has been... influenced by my involvement...)

[ivbinconned]

gwynplaine first you say, "Hence, I support no federal party, and maintain my skepticism of them all."

Then you say you were involved in all three leadership races??

You also tell us your views which are small "C" or maybe libertarian!! But yet supported a lefty, socalsit chup like Orhard who has always been surrounded by the FAR left NDP types...and you can't argue with me here because I KNOW him and his history!

You are not consistant!

[gwynplaine]

Whoops, a litte unclear up there. Sorry!

I've voted in the last three Conservative Leadership elections, first as a PC-er, then as a Conservative. Definatly not for any other party, sorry that wasn't more clear. True, my support of Mr Orchard probaly isn't consistent with my postings, here. I was against a merger of Reform and PC, I still don't really like Peter McKay, and I don't think NAFTA was an improvement over the previous FTA.

[gwynplaine]

I guess no matter what, I'm always going to appear inconsistent on this particular forum. Careful observers may note that I was in favour of increasing teachers wages, during the Strike discussion a couple years ago. This seems inconsistant, true. (However, idealy, that raise would be at the expense of reduced administration and board-level waste)

While some of my views, and ideals, are Libertarian (perhaps even anarchistic), I do recognize that that there are realities which must be addressed. I have to live in a world with other people (as much as I dislike the majority of them), there are institutions and systems which cannot be easily changed, or even reformed, and
there is no political party that represents all of my views. I've thrown my dice with the Conservatives, in the past, when I thought they had some integrity (Case in point: Mr Orchard), or when I felt the need to get involved.

Now. I started this post to gripe about how discouraged I am by the leadership of the party I've chosen to support. To paraphrase a wise man, there does seem to be a "rush to the centre" in this country. It was probably melodramatic, and for that I apologize.

[ivbinconned]

I think you can safely give Harper a pass. In the past he has much in writing and speaking as to his views and should he ever gain the power...he has lots to live up to.

This is an election and like in the past what is said in the west can be different than what is said in the east. Its a farce...with the reality...as in the past...two campaigns (or three) going on all at the same time.

[cowman]

For some people Harper is scary because he was in the Reform Party and somehow they think the Reform party was the Nazis or something? He also was in control of the National Citizens Coalition that expoused smaller government, less taxes and more accountability! And last but not least he was one of the authors that promoted Alberta setting up "firewalls" to limit the theft of Alberta by Ottawa!
Harper was never a rabid religious fanatic like the media liked to portray him! And incidently neither was Preston Manning!