aggressive dogs

[Ron]

Thursday evening my 4 kids were about 100 feet from my shop where they got a quad stuck in the mud. I pulled it out and talked about not going through 2 feet of mud again please when suddenly at least 4 black dogs appeared out of the bush and attacked my st Bernard pup barking and snarling.
My 4 year old boy was only about 5 feet away so I ran to him and got there just after a black dog grabbed his pantleg (I thought it was the ankle) and pulled him down into the pile of barking/snarling/yiking dogs.
I punted the dog in the ribs and grabbed my boy, yelled at my other (6,7 and 10 year old) kids to take off (they were all on quads), ran 100 feet to my shop where I had a rifle (coyote problem I was going out once the kids were busy) and a ammo clip in my coat pocket.
Less than a minute after this started I had 3 dead dogs and 4 crying scared kids.

Now I can see 2 dogs are about 40 lbs and 1 is about 70. 2 pups and the mother. I phoned some neighbors and found out they are from ¾ mile away and have been wandering by another neightbors for months.

I talked to one owner and she is very upset. Wont believe they attacked my kids/dog, they never showed aggression at home, implied I am a liar. (didn’t even ask if my kids are okay).

Talked with her husband later, he isn’t happy, cant imagine the dogs doing anything like that, doesn’t know what to tell his kids. Also didn’t ask how my kids are.

She just stopped by with her 6ish daughter who had a letter about her dog and the pups and how I killed them (with a picture). I said sorry about her dog but I have to protect my kids. I don’t know if her dogs were just roughhousing or fighting with mine but my boy was dragged down. I am very sorry for her kids but I would be more upset if my kid was chewed up.

I don’t know these people well, (went to school together about 20 years ago) but they seemed nice/responsible, definitely decent parents who care about their kids. They moved to an acreage about 5 years ago. I hate to rant about town people but my kids are a hell of a lot more important than their dogs. If they cared about their dogs they wouldn’t be running around loose. What if I wasn’t outside at the time? What if I only had a golf club against 4 dogs (at least 4, it was fast and all I know for sure is I saw 1 get away)? Chew the crap out of me?

Anyways now I am the evil neighbor, nothing I can do will change things but it really angers me they aren’t concerned about their dogs attacking my kids on my property. If it was my dog that dragged my boy down I would have shot my dog just as fast and I told them if my dog ever shows up and gets aggressive to please shoot him (or call me and I will do it, no second chances when kids are concerned). I don’t have livestock and could care less about a dog wandering through my place.

Just had to rant and curious what others would have done?

[cakadu]

I'm sorry to hear about your difficulties Ron - how awful for your children and you. How are they coping?

It seems to me you did what any parent would have done - protect your kids with whatever means necessary.

Wandering dogs take on a pack mentality and this sounds like what it was. Maybe it was all just play, but when your child is in the middle of it, who wants to take any chances. The dog owners sound like parents who won't believe their kids did bad. Really, who is going to make this stuff up? If you haven't had much to do with them in the past, why would you all of a sudden do something like this.

It sounds like others were having some issues with the dogs and the owners would be better off denying everything in order to avoid something coming back on them.

I hope the kids are fine and you all have a reasonably good Easter.

[Ron]

The 4 year old is fine, the older kids are pretty shook up.
I had a message when I got home tonight from the RCMP so who knows? I am pretty sure if the dogs were chasing my cows/horses I would be justified so I hope my kids are as important.

[bluefargo]

I believe it was in the last year or so a woman was out jogging west of Saskatoon (Vanscoy/Delisle area) and was attacked by a couple of dogs.
She was very badly injured. If I remember correctly a passerby chased off the dogs or it could have been even worse. This was well covered in the press at the time.
I also seem to remember there was a problem in the Calgary area a few years ago. Coyotes were being blamed for killing calves. Turned out it was packs of dogs.
Ofcourse you did the right thing. Sad that people can,t figure out that if dogs wander especially in packs there is a good chance they will be shot.
Nice neighbours you have there! There should be a course for people moving out to the country. Rule #1 - Dogs running at large will be shot.
I used to live in acreage country and was troubled by dogs at one time. Didn't shoot any but wouldn,t have hesitated given your circumstances.

Good luck.

[cakadu]

Ron, I hope everyone comes through this okay. It's sad that they have called the police, but given the reaction you described, it's not surprising.

I can't even imagine how it must make you feel when you think about not having been so close to the action.

With any luck the older ones will be fine in time.

[per]

Wow, yesterday morning while out checking the cows I came across three dogs a long way from where ever they came from. I also have a coyote problem and had a 270 on the seat. They might have been passing through and weren't harassing cattle or children so one just got a warning shot between the legs. I wouldn't hesitate to kill them if they approached my kids however.

[cowdog]

sorry that you had to shoot the nieghbours dogs but it seems you had little choice. You were within your rights to protect your kids but, that being said shooting someones dog always causes problems I have seen the same thing happen many time around here.
Once dogs form a pack like those had their nature changes to a pack mentallity, usually if you can kill the leader the problem goes away.
Dog problems around here are going to be an issue with thisDavey Lake Developement. Shooting dogs roving out of Davey Lake Developement may become mine and my neighbours new pastime, not something I am looking forward to. Bad Karma shooting dogs.

[dfarms11]

you absolutely did the right thing!!!! That will be the day that a dogs life will ever take priority over my childs welfare/life!!! We have 4 dogs. 2 lap dogs, a border collie(who incidentally thinks she's a lap dog, and a newly arrived Great Pyranees pup(needed for coyote control). We love our dogs dearly, just like they are our kids. However, if one of them went into our neighbours yard and threatened their family member I would expect them to do nothing less than what you did! Would we be hurt? Yes, but children take priority, hands down! I would have done the very same thing if my child was in the middle of that!

[coppertop]

Dogs running at large are one problem associated with 'urban sprawl' I found two dogs in the paddock where I have the cows and new calves the other morning. They belong to a neighbour who bought an acreage, built a new house and of course have THREE big dogs, and three kids with quads ripping up and down the roads at all hours of the day or night.

In many areas where there is acreage development a farmer cannot legally discharge a fire arm....which restricts ability to destroy problem dogs and wildlife.

Keeping animals at home is the responsibility of the owner and trying to lay a guilt trip on anyone who destroys dogs that are attacking children is hogwash. I suspect the RCMP will tell the dog owners that not keeping their dogs under control is what led to the event happening in the first place.

[cakadu]

What can be done about acreage owners who don't give a rip about their dogs staying home. We have one set of problem neighbors whose attitudes from day one is just shoot them if they are over there....begs the question as to why they have them in the first place.

Now, the newest set of acreage owners were relatively good about their dogs until the a newer addition about a month ago and now we have to deal with their dogs forever being in various pastures. It's not necessarily a problem just yet because the sheep aren't out grazing in these pastues, but it will be come grazing time.

I'm getting tired of yelling at these dogs to go home. I don't want to see it become a problem and as someone alluded to earlier....shooting dogs is bad karma.

[coppertop]

My neighbours Shepherd pup used to be over here everyday. I called them daily and asked them to keep it at home but it returned day after day until one morning it happened to get into the pen with the two donkeys....I heard the dog yelping like crazy, next thing it was limping toward home and has never been back.

The lack of respect for others property and enjoyment of same is just getting worse. We have a rash of ATV users out cutting fences to trespass on public property, allowing livestock out etc. Whether it's dogs running at large or showing a lack of respect for private property, it all boils down to the common denominator of conflicting land uses in my book. All the farmers and ranchers that I know wouldn't think of cutting a neighbours fence or allowing their dog to run all over the country.

[per]

Ron, what did the RCMP have to say?

[cakadu]

We all know that dogs get out and go where they aren't supposed to - ours are no angels either. The difference being if ours are off the property, we go and get them home as soon as we notice they are gone.

More often than not, ours run after the neighbors dogs.

Apparently the neighborcalled over here one day to advise us that our livestock guardian was on their property, beating up their dog. My husband patiently tried to explain to her that the role of the guardian is to protect the sheep and our dog was likely getting after their dog because it was over here so often. The neighbor didn't want to hear anything about that, just that our dog was being mean to her dog.

Granted, our dog shouldn't have been on their property but he spends an awful lot of time just watching to keep their dogs out of our pasture.

Coppertop, you could very well be right - just no consideration for others and their property. Maybe what we should do is have acreage owners take some sort of "Acreage 101" course. I'm sure though it would end up being like leading a horse to water.

[coppertop]

Our weekly newspaper is doing a series of articles, the first one is about the problems encountered by landowners when ATV users cut fences, trespass etc., the second in the series is about dogs running at large,and the problems they cause.

[Ron]

I left a message for the rcmp last week explaining my side and he returned my call saturday, he had hoped not to bother me but somebody kept phoning him to check on the progress.
I explained again the dogs attacked my kid, my other (farmer) neighbors have had these dogs wandering at their place for months, and I feel I made the right choice.
It turns out that I would have been fine if the dogs were attacking livestock, attacking kids is a grey area.
If I shot the dogs while they were attacking my kid it would be reckless use of a firearm, if they were running away it would be revenge, not defense.
I was told by the county police (not rcmp) that the stray dog act would call for fine #1, no collar or tag would be fine #2, attacking a person would be fine #3 and if there is any civil action taken to immediately call them and they would charge the neighbor for the dogs actions (I think it would add up to around $600/dog) and hopefully settle things down.
The county mentioned they are having more and more problems with stray dogs/acreage owners and will have to put more attention on the stray dog act etc.
Hopefully this is over (except for my 4 year olds new nightmares)