Alberta's dark age

[coppertop]

The only ones that pay attention to that sort of crap are those who have the same sort of thought process. The fact that we haven't got a huge opposition is the decision of the Albertans that chose to vote in March. Interesting isn't it that one of the people involved in the Greenpeace stunt at the Premier's dinner worked in Rachel Notley's office !!!

In my community a group are totally opposed to sour wells being drilled in close proximity to highly populated areas.
They are well organized, have been intervenors on several EUB and ERCB hearings, and can get media attention when they wish to, both locally, and televised and large daily newspapers.

They have earned the respect of this entire community, not because the entire community necessarily agree with their points of view, but for the way they have conducted themselves.

Martha Kostuch made inroads in environmental issues in this province and was respected internationally. She earned respect because she knew what she was talking about and wasn't afraid to take anyone on if necessary, but she did so in a respectful way. I don't ever recall hearing about her crashing dinner parties, or hanging from the rafters, but she was damn effective at what she did.

[Jay-mo]

I'm not an Albertan but I will comment about Greenpeace. This recent incident with ducks in the sludge pond, while unfortunate for those poor ducks, seems almost like Greenpeace was quite happy for it to happen.
Greenpeace has its agenda set and when something like this happens they almost seemed overjoyed by the fact they have some really good dirt to throw at the big bad oil companies.
They then proceed to not only question the specific incident but now have an excuse to call for a full inquiry into the entire oil industry in a bid to shut them down.
They could care less about the ducks.

[grassfarmer]

Which brings us back nicely to my opening post....the fact that the Environment minister has announced that environmental impact assessments are no longer necessary for power line projects.
Joe Anglin is a real smart guy, knows his subject, goes through all the right and proper channels. And how is this type of opposition dealt with in Alberta? The Government runs an illegal security operation on the citizens who dare to become involved(the Rimbey spies debacle) Then when the "citizins opposition" make a complete monkey of the Government and EUB and defeat them at every turn and at every court level the Government introduces Bill 46 to ensure that landowners will never again have the right to be involved or even consulted in powerline access disputes.
What a bunch of crooks!

[coppertop]

Seemed to me that Joe Anglin took all the credit for what success the group opposing the powerlinee had. He was not the 'only game in town' there were numerous people that worked very hard to oppose the powerline,some of them were interviewed in the media, etc., and I would suggest were, in their own way equally effective.
Joe Anglin chose to run for a seat in the Legislature but was not elected, so obviously the majority of voters in your constituency supported the sitting MLA.
I mentioned in an earlier post that our power was off for several hours during the recent snow falls, and the reason Fortis gave was fires on power poles. I question whether the power delivery system is taxed to the limit and we do, in fact need additional powerlines. If so, then these lines have to go somewhere.
I certainly agree with those opposing the AltaLink line, in that, it is proposed to go through some of the most valuable land in the province, vs choosing a different route that won't affect as many people or property values.
I am thinking that the Land Use Framework will include a provision on pipeline and power line corridors. I could be wrong, but it wouldn't surprise me to see that entrenched in any land use legislation.

[per]

Who would imagine that there could be more than one type on environment on a 1000km long power line. What possible environmental impact could there be?????? It seems that with dumb moves like that there will be more folks lined up in opposition than before because it creates mistrust of said government. Why bother with impact assessments on pipelines, compressors, wells, coal mines or gravel pits?? We have completed lots of them and know what to expect as well. How about the Pekisko group riding horses up the steps of Premier Ralph's office in Calgary to deliver a respectfully written letter to the Premier and then EUB chair Neil McCrank. Stunt for sure. Respected land owner group? By your definition Coppertop, maybe not. I would be willing to bet that there have been lots of face to face meetings and letters to and with the appropriate politicians. Sometimes a stunt is the only thing that gets noticed. Yes you might be able to draw a line between a public demonstration and a private one. And we tend to judge how bad it is by whether we agree with the cause or not. We did get what we voted for but that doesn't mean we need to put our brains in park until the next election. We still, maybe more than ever, need to hold Edmonton accountable to the people of Alberta. I am certainly not a fan of Green Peace and do not condone hanging from the rafters in a private function. I do however, recognize the value of some of that free advertising.

[grassfarmer]

Nice deflection Coppertop, basing your reply on whether or not Joe was the only person involved in the powerline debacle. I never claimed he was, but if you know anything about the campaign you would know it was mostly the one man's efforts.
The fact remains that this case is a clear indication of the anti-democratic and corrupt manner in which the PC Government of Alberta operates.

[coppertop]

I was in Calgary when the Pekisko group made their ride, I know most of the folks involved, and I would suggest that if Ian Tyson had not been one of the riders it would never have gained the attention it did. Work behind the scenes by people like Evan Berger, former Reeve of the MD of Willow Creek and current Parliamentary Secretary to Ted Morton, Minister of SRD, has done as much to raise awareness of the importance of preserving the native rangelands in the Eastern Slopes. I was very pleased to see Evan get the appoinment he did. Grassfarmer, do you honestly think that the majority of those who voted in the March election are a bunch of dunderheads who were foolish enough to elect a corrupt government ?

Disagreeing with government policy is one thing, but to suggest that every move the government makes that one doesn't agree with makes them corrupt is a stretch in my opinion.

I, for one, think that the Premier took necessary steps to clean up the EUB, and also clean up a lot of the mess that Ralph left behind.

As far as EIA's on power lines go, I don't know enough about the issue to have a firm opinion. I do know that our county asks for them on subdivison application for multi parcel development where abandoned leases are present.

[per]

By necessary steps you mean the Utilities and ERCB split, Bil 46, Bill 9 (new bill) or the removal of the EIA on Utility projects, LUF? Some mixed messages there.

[grassfarmer]

I think the Government dealing with the issue involved initially denying any spying took place, then when they were caught in that lie blamed it on the EUB and denied any knowledge of it. When it emerged that the Government did in fact have prior knowledge of the spying they did a sleight of hand reshuffle of the EUB leaving the key players in place. After a public outcry over that some of the head people were replaced - with people from a very similar background. It's clear it is business as usual at the EUB, energy department and environment. Of course we can't have an enquiry into it as too many fingers would be pointing back at the Government.

Contrary to what you may think Coppertop I'm not anti-conservative. I was a Conservative voter in the UK and our family were involved with the party there. This PC government in Alberta scares me though - as would any Government that runs roughshod over their citizens rights and tries to circumvent democracy at every opportunity in favour of lining the pockets of big business. You absolutely cannot have Government run by merchants, there must be a clear separation of Government and business and I do not see that happening in Alberta.

[coppertop]

grassfarmer, I don't know what the answer is with respect to the ERCB. I know there have been major changes within the membership, and I know some of the acting members personally and consider them to be close friends. They are honest, hard working and certainly unbiased individuals, but in a panel of three or five their opinion is only partially responsible for decisions.

Industries in Alberta need a regulator, and if the ERCB and the Utilities Board aren't the answer, then how do we regulate resource development and utilities ?

The spying incident wss an example of someone at the EUB making an extremely foolish decision. It came back to haunt the organization and certainly led to some people making a very early exit.

I am the first to agree with you, that it never should have happened, and hopefully there are mechanisms in place to ensure that nothing like that happens again.

The original discussion was about Greenpeace and the disruptive tactics they use. Whether this sort of disruption occurs at the Premier's Dinner or in a public hearing by a regulator funded by the public it is never appropriate. I have sat in on EUB and NRCB hearings and have seen people who are very much opposed to the subject of the hearing, the chairman of the hearing is in charge of how things progress, and if he or she allows things to go sideways, then it is the perogative of the regulator to move the entire hearing to Calgary where it is under the highest security.
If there was any concern for the security in the AltaLing hearings that is what should have been done vs hiring spies !!!

With respect to EIA's for power lines, I am wondering why groups who are upset over the Minister's decision to do away with them, aren't making their voice known.

In this area power lines are a non issue, but sour wells are, so I guess it depends on how the individual or group is affected by proposed development.

[cakadu]

Coppertop, I would hazard a guess that most people aren't directly affected by the lack of EIA's on anything. How many people in Edmonton and/or Calgary have to worry about a power line coming through their backyard? How many people actually knew about the existence of Bill 46?

We can try to make our voices heard, but if the people who are making these decisions turn a deaf ear, then what do we do?

I am no fan of Greenpeace or any other group like them and believe that you can get something accomplished without the tactics that they employ.

I'm not entirely convinced that running to the power company and screaming "no way" is the best answer either. I'm asking this question because I don't know the answer, but I wonder how things might have turned out if the folks outright opposing the power line would have asked for them to do it in such a way as for it to become the model powerline, taking the environment into consideration. Maybe that's not possible, but did anyone consider it? Let's face it AltaLink has more money and legal power than anyone else and they would have been anticipating folks coming at them with both barrels.

Don't know the answers, just curious as to what others might think.

[per]

Pretty hard to negotiate an environmentally friendly power line route without an environmental impact assessment. This government has shown how it wants to precede with that type of utility. We have 3 miles of 500kva power line and it certainly has an environmental impact in many different ways. As far as where are the people up in arms about these things? There is only so much time in the day, week, month. You can only lobby so much and you burn out. We have to leave time to make a living. These groups you refer to, Coppertop, are made up of volunteers who have busy lives. It would be nice if the regulator or the government didn't need a watchdog but time and time again they prove that they do. As far as the honesty of the board members, of course people of integrity are chosen for the job. They still have to live within the parameters of the regulation and I think that is where the issue is, notwithstanding a few zealous rouges. Splitting the utilities and bringing in Bill 46 didn't instill confidence in me that positive change was here. We had to fight tooth and nail to bring 46 close to something acceptable. Just saying no doesn't work either and to have any credibility we need to present solutions when we have objections.