Alberta's dark age

[wilagro]

A lot of people don't realize that those tailing ponds are growing every year. They still haven't found a method to clean the dissolved silt, oil residue and now dead ducks, out of the water and it is just sitting there and can't be returned to the river from which it came as it is bloody well POLLUTED.

Seems to me that they should have done more research BEFORE major expansion was allowed.

[cakadu]

Wilagro, it's called being over $125/barrel of oil. As long as the money is coming in like that, we have to ask whether or not environmental concerns will ever be first.

I will continue to push for 10% of the surplus going towards restoration, reclamation and just plain old preservation. Sadly, much of the damage that has already been done is irreparable and it will be future generations that pay for it, not us.

[coppertop]

WE, ALBERTANS, should not have to pay for restoration, it should be the companies that create the problem.

Far too often the taxpayer ends up cleaning the mess others leave behind,

[cakadu]

I'll play devil's advocate, for a moment coppertop.

It is the government that cut back people doing reclamation orders, so there is no enforcement and/or thorough follow-up.

It is the government that is heralding how safe our oil is, tarsands included.

It is also this same government that is saying full-steam ahead on economic development.

The government has eased up on collecting more royalties, at a cost to us, the taxpaying Albertans.

So, in essence, we COULD be getting the companies to pay for the clean-up if we enforced and inspected the reclamations, if we collected more in royalties that could be set aside for reclamation efforts and we took a long, hard look at the impacts of what we are doing.

[grassfarmer]

"Suzuki is a joke, he is an extremely high paid spokesperson for environmental groups, and as far as Greenpeace goes, they must be getting paid to do what they do, because they seem to spend a lot of time doing it !"
That's very PC thinking Coppertop - believe it or not some people are politically active because they believe in trying to make the world a better place. Who would be paying Greenpeace to act the way they do? That is maybe how the corporate buddies of your AB PC government do business - buy whatever decision is favorable to them from weak spined politicians it doesn't mean it's how the rest of society operates.

As for Suzuki being a joke - try looking in the mirror - what of a Government that has no longterm thinking capability beyond how many dollars they can raise through resource exploitation this week. It seems they'd sell their granny to the Americans if they thought they'd get $5 for her! It just doesn't seem to matter who or what gets damaged in the process. Poison the environment, ruin the landscape, kill the wildlife it's all acceptable progress in the lust for the almighty dollar.

[coppertop]

grassfarmer, Sixuki is a joke, highly paid as are Greenpeace. Do you agree with crashing a private diner where the guests paid $450.00 a plate to listen to the Premier ? I you paid good money to listen to a speaker would you be impressed if the Premier decended from the rafters unfurling a sign ?????
Greenpeace are activists, and they have their ' flavor of the week', and this week it is the oilsands.

I am sure that you or any other citizen could get more attention from the government by sending a well worded, factual letter itemizing your concerns on any issue, including the oilsands, than Greenpeace is going to get with all their theatrics.

I have never said I agreed with every single policy of our provincial government, and if you have read my posts on many subjects you will know that. I always feel it is best to work with the government in power to bring about changes to legislation or policy that aren't in the best interest of Albertan vs being confrontational, abraisive etc.

[grassfarmer]

coppertop, you didn't supply me with an answer as to who pays Greenpeace. Isn't it the case that they are in fact only "paid" by donations from individual citizens around the world concerned about some of the environmental disasters man is creating? There is less of a hidden agenda behind who pays them than there is with the revolving door of corporations and politicians in North America.
Crashing a "private" dinner hosted by a politician is an acceptable form of political protest in my book given that it was really a public event given that tickets were sold for it.
I'm not sorry for the guys that paid $450 a ticket to buy time with the premier so they could lobby him to promote their personal interests ahead of those of the average citizen who the premier, and government, are supposed to represent.

If only writing letters were the answer... Unfortunately in the non functioning democracy we have in Alberta we do need to use other tactics. As with the powerline controversy it seems that we have more chance of influencing the outcome by appealing to the more environmentally conscious power consumers of California than we do trying to influence our own Government.
The Greenpeace protesters showed some initiative in their efforts and were duly rewarded with extensive media coverage. Greenpeace have come a long way in the last twenty years and are no longer viewed as the lunatic group they once were. No Government would be bold enough(or stupid enough) now to blow up the Rainbow Warrior as Greenpeace have become an accepted part of our political landscape.
In closing I would dispute their banner message though - I don't think $telmach is the best premier oil money can buy - Ralph was a way more effective buy for big oil.

[coppertop]

Grassfarmer, as you are well aware, Greenpeace, the Sierra Club, PETA and dozens of other organizations are funded by donations.

I do take exception to anyone CRASHING a fund raising dinner. If I or anyone else choose to pay $450 for a ticket to attend a fundraiser, I should expect to hear the feature speaker, enjoy the entertainment, be treated to an enjoyable meal, all without having to put up with disruption from uninvited guests.
Drawing attention to one's CAUSE by rudeness does nothing to enhance the individual or group that caused the distription.
In fact you are wrong to suggest that those who attend the dinner go there to lobby the Premier, they attend to support a fundraiser for the PC party. Pretty difficult to lobby the Premier in a crowd of 1600 people.
Having a private discussion with the Premier is much more successful at an event in one's local community. He has always been very accessable, but idiotic stunts like the one Greenpeace engaged in is going to make it extremely difficult for the average Albertan to have acess to our heads of government.

[Burbert]

Let me see now. When was the last time anyone, and I mean anyone paid any attention whatsoever, to a peaceful, orderly, low key demonstration? There has to be a stunt, protest or violence to even get noticed by the media, or anyone at all. Ain't democracy a weird and wonderful thing? No government opposition means the media must pick up the slack, like here in Alberta, hence stunts, pie in the eye or ceiling hanging is required, direct action.....

[coppertop]

The only ones that pay attention to that sort of crap are those who have the same sort of thought process. The fact that we haven't got a huge opposition is the decision of the Albertans that chose to vote in March. Interesting isn't it that one of the people involved in the Greenpeace stunt at the Premier's dinner worked in Rachel Notley's office !!!

In my community a group are totally opposed to sour wells being drilled in close proximity to highly populated areas.
They are well organized, have been intervenors on several EUB and ERCB hearings, and can get media attention when they wish to, both locally, and televised and large daily newspapers.

They have earned the respect of this entire community, not because the entire community necessarily agree with their points of view, but for the way they have conducted themselves.

Martha Kostuch made inroads in environmental issues in this province and was respected internationally. She earned respect because she knew what she was talking about and wasn't afraid to take anyone on if necessary, but she did so in a respectful way. I don't ever recall hearing about her crashing dinner parties, or hanging from the rafters, but she was damn effective at what she did.

[Jay-mo]

I'm not an Albertan but I will comment about Greenpeace. This recent incident with ducks in the sludge pond, while unfortunate for those poor ducks, seems almost like Greenpeace was quite happy for it to happen.
Greenpeace has its agenda set and when something like this happens they almost seemed overjoyed by the fact they have some really good dirt to throw at the big bad oil companies.
They then proceed to not only question the specific incident but now have an excuse to call for a full inquiry into the entire oil industry in a bid to shut them down.
They could care less about the ducks.

[grassfarmer]

Which brings us back nicely to my opening post....the fact that the Environment minister has announced that environmental impact assessments are no longer necessary for power line projects.
Joe Anglin is a real smart guy, knows his subject, goes through all the right and proper channels. And how is this type of opposition dealt with in Alberta? The Government runs an illegal security operation on the citizens who dare to become involved(the Rimbey spies debacle) Then when the "citizins opposition" make a complete monkey of the Government and EUB and defeat them at every turn and at every court level the Government introduces Bill 46 to ensure that landowners will never again have the right to be involved or even consulted in powerline access disputes.
What a bunch of crooks!

[coppertop]

Seemed to me that Joe Anglin took all the credit for what success the group opposing the powerlinee had. He was not the 'only game in town' there were numerous people that worked very hard to oppose the powerline,some of them were interviewed in the media, etc., and I would suggest were, in their own way equally effective.
Joe Anglin chose to run for a seat in the Legislature but was not elected, so obviously the majority of voters in your constituency supported the sitting MLA.
I mentioned in an earlier post that our power was off for several hours during the recent snow falls, and the reason Fortis gave was fires on power poles. I question whether the power delivery system is taxed to the limit and we do, in fact need additional powerlines. If so, then these lines have to go somewhere.
I certainly agree with those opposing the AltaLink line, in that, it is proposed to go through some of the most valuable land in the province, vs choosing a different route that won't affect as many people or property values.
I am thinking that the Land Use Framework will include a provision on pipeline and power line corridors. I could be wrong, but it wouldn't surprise me to see that entrenched in any land use legislation.

[per]

Who would imagine that there could be more than one type on environment on a 1000km long power line. What possible environmental impact could there be?????? It seems that with dumb moves like that there will be more folks lined up in opposition than before because it creates mistrust of said government. Why bother with impact assessments on pipelines, compressors, wells, coal mines or gravel pits?? We have completed lots of them and know what to expect as well. How about the Pekisko group riding horses up the steps of Premier Ralph's office in Calgary to deliver a respectfully written letter to the Premier and then EUB chair Neil McCrank. Stunt for sure. Respected land owner group? By your definition Coppertop, maybe not. I would be willing to bet that there have been lots of face to face meetings and letters to and with the appropriate politicians. Sometimes a stunt is the only thing that gets noticed. Yes you might be able to draw a line between a public demonstration and a private one. And we tend to judge how bad it is by whether we agree with the cause or not. We did get what we voted for but that doesn't mean we need to put our brains in park until the next election. We still, maybe more than ever, need to hold Edmonton accountable to the people of Alberta. I am certainly not a fan of Green Peace and do not condone hanging from the rafters in a private function. I do however, recognize the value of some of that free advertising.

[grassfarmer]

Nice deflection Coppertop, basing your reply on whether or not Joe was the only person involved in the powerline debacle. I never claimed he was, but if you know anything about the campaign you would know it was mostly the one man's efforts.
The fact remains that this case is a clear indication of the anti-democratic and corrupt manner in which the PC Government of Alberta operates.