Where is farming headed?

[Horse]

Well I guess I must be to simple to see the problem of poor returns for farming. I have been trying to get farmers together for 40 yr now. As I see it there is no money unless you go big but if there is no amall producers to supply calves or to farm the poorer land that is uncompatable to large equiptment there would be a major shortage of almost everything. So if we are not getting paid then what do we have to loose if we do not plant or dont turn bulls out where are the large feedlots going to get calves it wont be from their own cows because they need us small producers to supply. I guess what I am trying to say is we are the masters of our own demise. It could be so good if we would just get together instead of fighting amongst our selves.

[cakadu]

Many industries get where they need to go when they finally put aside their seemingly insurmountable differences and work together. One of the commonalities producers have is getting a fair price for their product - no matter what it is they are selling.

One of the problems that I see is that it is somewhat of an adversarial system - whether by design or whether it has just turned out that way. Case in point is the hay shortage last year. I can't say that I see anything wrong with the economics of supply and demand which dictates price. Some of the hay prices that we saw last year defied logic when you consider the fact that the fellow with livestock right across the road needed it to stay in business, yet a reasonable price was often not negotiated.

When livestock prices are good, as a rule grain is down and vice versa. There is little that appears to work together.

How do we start working together in a more reasonable fashion so that everyone can win? Does it have to necessarily be that if you loose, then by default I win?

(Welcome to the discussion Horse. Always good to get new people joining in.)

[cowman]

Linda: I know what you mean about the various groups not working together. A classic example was the drought last year and the feed situation.
When the grain farmers saw a chance to make a buck they went for it. Which I don't entirely blame them for. In retrospect it was a very short sighted thing to do. When the cattle business realized they couldn't survive with the prices being asked for feed they went looking for another solution. Thus we had American corn come in and straw/hay from eastern Sask. and Manitoba. With these imports came a mean little grain disease, fusarium.
One cattleman I talked to told me the local grain guys wanted $60/bale for straw in the field. He imported straw from Yorkton for $35 in the yard. He said I hope the greedy suckers get fusarium. It will mean more silage for our cattle! And a lot of straw sat all winter in the field and was burned in the spring! And the barley sat in the bin!
I think all livestock and grain farmers need a wakeup call! The fact is we need each other! No way can the grain farmer export all the grain and no way can the livestock industry import all its feed!
There needs to be a balance so everyone makes some money.
I had no problems with feed or pasture last year. Why? Because my neighbors helped me out. And why was that? Because I help them out when they need it. You get treated how you treat others in this world. Or at least that has been my experience!

[raymondb]

Interesting that we only seem to remember the times we overpaid but never or seldom talk about the times we took to much or got things much cheaper like cowman just talked about. I remember paying way to much for a steer and yet sold straw and feed last year for way less than the going rate just to help the neighbor with cattle. When we were selling oats for less than a dollar a bushel, I never had anyone coming up and say that I was selling it for too little and offer me more. Never have the feedlot guys say that they would pay more for the barley when they were making huge profits-they just went for American corn. We will never all get together in this global market. We have to develop and grow a superior product that the global community wants.We just do not have the right weather conditions to produce the same products that the people down south(includes south America)produce and therefore will not or do not have the competitive edge.

[cakadu]

Raymondb - I like that line of thinking. How do you see us being able to put out a superior product?

How do you think programs like Greencover, Environmental Farm Plans and others that are coming along will help us to differentiate our product and ensure its sustainability into the future?

Going the way we have been for the past number of years hasn't really worked for us; isn't it time we tried something new?

[raymondb]

Cakadu--wish I knew how we can put out a superior product that the consumer demands. All the dollars we spent on advertising beef did way less for consumption in Canada then the BSE scare. Go figure.
The programs you mention may help a few but these few are a very small slice of the pie.
Our Auction marts all got larger-our feedlots are getting very large-our slaughter plants are huge-our grocery stores are humongous but our farms are staying comparitivly small. We just are not expanding fast enough. Dollars will only be made by producing and selling large volumes. Perhaps 10 to 20 farms should amalgamate and produce and sell their produce as one and sell directly to the grocery store. I wander what the auctin mars or the slaughter house would do if the grocery store (and consumer) said what they would pay before the product was on the store shelf.

[cowman]

Raymond: The Alberta government encouraged the farmers to bring in straw, grain and hay from the fusarium areas...which was a direct violation of the Alberta Pest Control Act! So much for our laws, right? But the fact of the matter was they couldn't allow the cattle industry to go down so they threw all the laws out the window.
The corn deal was a complete joke. American producers were getting about $4.50/bu. US and it was landing in Letbridge for about $3.20 Canadian or about $2 US! Oh no it wasn't subsidized, right? But did our federal government impose tariffs? Or complain about dumping?
The grain farmer needed a good price because his yields were so low due to the drought. It frankly just wasn't fair!

[raymondb]

I am not sure if the Alberta Government started encouraging the feed from the east or did they just get caught up by the urban concern caused by the news media. Heck, even the private schools in Calgary got caught up with adopt a cow programs. Yes, I do believe the U.S. farmer is being subsidized by the U.S. government. I guess the U.S. government has concern for all their citizens-not only the East like our Government in Canada. I wander what would happen if we can prove we have bilingual cows and bilingual grain.

[cowman]

Well if the Alberta government never aided the fusarium thing they sure never discouraged it! Their job under the Pest Control Act was to keep it out and they never did that! They broke their own laws!
And sure it was an ugly situation and I don't blame them for not upholding their duty to keep the cattle industry viable. But consider that basically they sacrificed one industry to save another? Thankfully we didn't get fusarium on a large scale, but make no mistake it is here(I know this for a fact)! Waiting for favorable conditions to rear its ugly head! You can't seed a disease that can survive for who knows how long, without consequences? And the results could make a one year drought look like a cakewalk?

[cakadu]

What do you think will happen when the malting barley industry gets hits by fusarium? What happens then?

We seem to be reactive instead of proactive - always playing catch-up and lacking foresight.

[cowman]

Apparently the malting industry can't tolerate hardly any fusarium. I makes the beer foam. So that high priced malt now becomes cow feed!
Cattle can handle a fair amount of fusarium but pigs can't, so there goes the hog barns. Apparently Manitoba hog production is held down by too much fusarium. The B trains haul tombstone barley/feed wheat to feedlot alley and haul back clean grain. There actually is a fair bit of headblight around Lethbridge right now!