Agriculture 1984, 1994 to 2004

[ianben]

Muttley

Big changes here in UK too both personnel and national.

Lots leave the industry every year 25,000 again last year 30,000 year before. Lots of older farmers still farming though very few younger guys coming in.

Like Cowman we have lots of lifestyle farmers and they do provide income and oppertunities.
We also had a very large dairy producer leave the sector stating unable to compete with family labour and lifstyle subsidies.
I am not so sure about multi-nationals taking over. Can they really stand the risk of drought and BSE etc.

Why have they not taken over already?

The investment needed to have any sort of control over price is massive and then the labour has to be so flexible and co-operative that I think unless are able to control climate some parts of agriculure will always be left to individuals.

Personnally I used to be a farmer. 90% of my income came from the farm and 100% from AGRICULTURE.

Now I try to spread my sources of income.
I have rented out buildings to non agricultural clients( Rugs and fireworks) RETAIL
I encourage telecommunication masts we have three TELECOMS
Hay and straw to horses
LEISURE
Crops for fuel
ENERGY
Off farm jobs
MARKETING

Now I couldnt live from any one of these but year on year I get quite a good living.
Neither am I dependant on one sector of the ecconamy. Was a job at Enron any different from BSE?

I would not want my children to be farmers but I believe they could farm for part of their income.

[cowman]

Ian: Multinationals have not taken over the basic production because they have idiots who will produce for less than anything they could come up with. So instead they control the inputs and the output and rake off the cream at both ends.
Unfortunately for them they have been a little bit too greedy(at least in Canada) and have got themselves in a situation where the farms are crumbling. No new blood means the end of the gravy train for them! I think the average age of farmers is around 58 and getting older! Not very many young guys have a couple of million to get started and besides who wants to work for peanuts? And be vilified as public leeches?
So farming is a dirty deal but someone has to do it...and in the end I guess that leaves the big companies. The peasants will still be out there plowing around...only now they will be poorly paid employees instead of poorly paid owners.

[Muttley]

Costs of production is certainly going to be something that will make a difference in the future. Even now it is extremely important.
There is more than one price for a product now days as is. I don't farm much land anymore so am not getting any bargains at the chemical and fertilizer stores. For instance this past spring I went to buy chemical for doing a kill on some old grassland. My friend who farms 10,000 acres told me to buy it through him at much less. He was right my cost through him was over 10.00 a jug or 1.00 per acre cheaper. This same retailer would not sell the chemical in my name for that price only to my friend.
True story, goes to show that the bigger the buyers the bigger the savings. Picture this whole scenario out on a whole farm basis.

[enough]

Muttley , my ideas may stink to you but are the ideas of the majority.

[dalek]

Cakadu- "Muttley - my husband and I were having the same discussion in the past couple of days - maybe this will help us move away from big farms and back to those that were self-sufficient because what they did was fill the domestic supply. We weren't worried about being big enough to compete globally because it was a noble cause to feed our own country and make sure we didn't starve - first.

We seem to have really bought into this notion of feeding the world, when in reality we should be looking after our own. "

Which is exactly what happens in dairy and poultry under supply management.

[cowman]

dalek: I have to agree with you about supply management. Whalen offered it to the beef and pork industries and we turned it down. I'm not saying supply management(as practised in Canada) is the ideal but the basic idea is right...only produce for the domestic market at a profit and keep out the cheap imports. Or tax them to a level that keeps them out.
I do believe that is a good policy for the country. Assures a steady safe food supply that the consumer can afford and the farmer can make a dollar. The cost of quota has been the sticker and that has been plainly government mismangement.
Unfortunately we will never see this sort of thing expand. The dog eat dog mentality of the US will prevail. Under the illusion of a "free market" which means big corporations controlling the market. In fact they will never rest until they have destroyed the marketing boards in Canada. They don't want to see farmers get paid a fair price for their products. They want it all!

[boone]

Post: If you look at the rules of the new federal farm program, there is no consideration for inputs excepting fert, chems,fuel crop ins, and profesional help. Any other costs such as realestate interest costs, cash rents don't apply. So question how would you switch to any other style of farming except high capital input (treadmill farming is what we call it, and we are up to our necks) Your risk is covered to 80% but you are lacking in making a change that would move you to low inputs on a increased land base.

[lakenheath]

Currently in Saskatchewan:

No multi-national farms.

Cowman, Boone, Muttley, Dalek Predictions:

Multi-Nationals will be farming the prairies in 10, 20 or 30 years time.

It is so easy to sit back and come up with these doomsdays conspiracy theory ideas. Sit and grumble and preach doom. Sure, things are not fair right now. The price of grain is low, fertilizer corporations are absolutely price gouging, the weather has been hard on farmers, and on and on. Complaining is not going to help the cause. I hear you guys loud and clear, but where are your solutions? Globalization is a big scary monster, yes. But who is going to stop it?

There is a good life to be had farming. If you got into farming to become rich, you should have woken up years ago. Became a doctor, dentist, lawyer, engineer, etc. Farmers are self-sufficient people. I know too many farmers who “farm to show off”. Get the most land, the newest equipment and live a high cost lifestyle to the other people in the community think you are the “big-wig”. It’s these bastards who live beyond there means that are complaining.

Society as a product of corporate advertising has been told that you CANNOT and SHOULD NOT be happy unless you:

· Drive brand new Chevrolet Silverado
· Wear Nike shoes
· Brush your teeth with Colgate
· Wear a certain brand of clothes
· Go on certain holidays
· Make yourself look a certain way
· Own a home fully furnished by Ikea

People are living the high cost life that the multi-nationals are telling them they should live. Then they have the nerve to be pissed off that they companies are screwing them over. Some the richest farmers in our area that have every possession a person would want in a life time are the most unhappy.

It got a bit of track with my philosophical side. Here my take on why you guys are dead wrong about corporate farms.

Look at the vastness of the prairies and the specialists (farmers) scattered across the prairies. These guys are mechanics, managers, agrologists, operators, producers all in one. They are very specialized people, in tune with the land. They are mostly baby-boomers looking to retired in 10 years. Contrary to popular belief there are young people out there ready to take over. Believe me, farms are going to grow in size but only to a certain point.

Farming is unlike a factory where there are all sorts of controls in place. If you say that multi-nationals are going to take over farming, who is going to work for them. If they want well-trained employees they are going to have to pay a good wage. Where are they going to find these people. First of, these people will have to live in a rural setting. According to you guys, rural town will be dead (hence no rural people). So how to we draw someone from the city to work 10 away on farm in rural Saskatchewan where there is nowhere to live.

Now let’s say I am wrong and the multi-nationals find employees. Any corporation will tell you, they are as successful and strong as their people. Just operating machinery on a farm alone takes utmost care and training. How efficient will these operation be when the employees are:

· Driving into sloughs
· Seeding too soon after a rain
· Seeding to deep or to shallow
· Being rough on the equipment
· Plugging the air drill
· Seeding 10 mph
· Spraying with the wrong chemical or wrong rate
· Not cleaning the spray tank out correctly
· Misjudging weather with timing of farm operations
· Putting half the crop our the back of a combine
· Damaging combine do to lack care and maintainance

I could go on and on and one. It not like these employees are working in a factory with strict regulations and close monitoring. They are out on unfamiliar terrain with $500,000 pieces of equipment. It takes years and years to be a good operators.

Now, once again let’s say I am dead wrong. And multi-nationals have farming figured out better than we do currently and can produce better. Why the would they farm? Why would they invest in an operation that on such a combination of uncertainties. And when is this going to happen.

Rather than you guys sitting back and whining about this INEVITABLE. Do something about it. Get off your ass and lobby the government or something. Sitting a chat room everyday spouting off doom and gloom depressed other farmers (increases suicide rate). Let hear positives. Agri-ville should have a chat room with no negative comments allowed.

[dalek]

lakenheath, I'm not particularly pessimistic in regards to multinationals. As a 28 year old farmer, I think there are still a lot of opportunities to be had for a small family farm, if only the majority of farmers can get it through their heads that what makes up a small family farm has changed radically from what they believe it is.
As I've said before, most of the bellyaching I see in my own neighbourhood comes from farmers in the following situation:

Usually in their 50s or 60s
Farming the same amount of land as their fathers did, or slightly more, BUT:where their fathers milked 20-25 cows and fed pigs, the sons decided milking was too much work and switched to 40-50 cow cow-calf operations
-where the fathers farmed most of their lives with loose hay in the mow, graduating to square bales in old age, most of these guys have been round baling for 20 years
-where the fathers cleaned manure every day with a wheelbarrow or stable cleaner, the sons clean out manure once or twice a year with a front-end loader.
-these guys think it should be a God-given right for them to go fishing 3 days every weekend in the summer, hunting for a month every fall, and have the wife (who's working to pay the bills) take them to Cuba for a week every winter

I hope it's different in other places, but here, these are the guys who are constantly complaining that the government should be providing them with at least the same standard of living that their fathers had, even though they're doing a quarter of the work, and they spend most of their time criticizing anyone like me who's working a large enough farm to provide full-time employment as "factory farmers" or corporate sell-outs. These guys aren't "family farmers" anymore, they're hobby farmers who just haven't gotten around to getting a full-time job because that would get in the way of their complaining and coffee-drinking time.

[lakenheath]

dalek: I agree with you 100%. I am a 25 year old farmer attempting to divesify and grow our operation. I work everyday of the year using my holiday time and a an 80% work arrangment to be able to take time off to farm. I absolutely appreciate every minute I am at the farm. It is a very rewarding lifestlye. But it is not for the greedy. It just blows me away the farmers I talk to who's goals are to become millionaires. And then they whine like sissys when things are not going as planned. Get out of farming if you it doesn't provide for your needs or reconsider your needs. Like you said, it is the strickly grain farmers that sit around all winter doing nothing that really get to me.