Agriculture 1984, 1994 to 2004

[dalek]

Cakadu- "Muttley - my husband and I were having the same discussion in the past couple of days - maybe this will help us move away from big farms and back to those that were self-sufficient because what they did was fill the domestic supply. We weren't worried about being big enough to compete globally because it was a noble cause to feed our own country and make sure we didn't starve - first.

We seem to have really bought into this notion of feeding the world, when in reality we should be looking after our own. "

Which is exactly what happens in dairy and poultry under supply management.

[cowman]

dalek: I have to agree with you about supply management. Whalen offered it to the beef and pork industries and we turned it down. I'm not saying supply management(as practised in Canada) is the ideal but the basic idea is right...only produce for the domestic market at a profit and keep out the cheap imports. Or tax them to a level that keeps them out.
I do believe that is a good policy for the country. Assures a steady safe food supply that the consumer can afford and the farmer can make a dollar. The cost of quota has been the sticker and that has been plainly government mismangement.
Unfortunately we will never see this sort of thing expand. The dog eat dog mentality of the US will prevail. Under the illusion of a "free market" which means big corporations controlling the market. In fact they will never rest until they have destroyed the marketing boards in Canada. They don't want to see farmers get paid a fair price for their products. They want it all!

[boone]

Post: If you look at the rules of the new federal farm program, there is no consideration for inputs excepting fert, chems,fuel crop ins, and profesional help. Any other costs such as realestate interest costs, cash rents don't apply. So question how would you switch to any other style of farming except high capital input (treadmill farming is what we call it, and we are up to our necks) Your risk is covered to 80% but you are lacking in making a change that would move you to low inputs on a increased land base.

[lakenheath]

Currently in Saskatchewan:

No multi-national farms.

Cowman, Boone, Muttley, Dalek Predictions:

Multi-Nationals will be farming the prairies in 10, 20 or 30 years time.

It is so easy to sit back and come up with these doomsdays conspiracy theory ideas. Sit and grumble and preach doom. Sure, things are not fair right now. The price of grain is low, fertilizer corporations are absolutely price gouging, the weather has been hard on farmers, and on and on. Complaining is not going to help the cause. I hear you guys loud and clear, but where are your solutions? Globalization is a big scary monster, yes. But who is going to stop it?

There is a good life to be had farming. If you got into farming to become rich, you should have woken up years ago. Became a doctor, dentist, lawyer, engineer, etc. Farmers are self-sufficient people. I know too many farmers who “farm to show off”. Get the most land, the newest equipment and live a high cost lifestyle to the other people in the community think you are the “big-wig”. It’s these bastards who live beyond there means that are complaining.

Society as a product of corporate advertising has been told that you CANNOT and SHOULD NOT be happy unless you:

· Drive brand new Chevrolet Silverado
· Wear Nike shoes
· Brush your teeth with Colgate
· Wear a certain brand of clothes
· Go on certain holidays
· Make yourself look a certain way
· Own a home fully furnished by Ikea

People are living the high cost life that the multi-nationals are telling them they should live. Then they have the nerve to be pissed off that they companies are screwing them over. Some the richest farmers in our area that have every possession a person would want in a life time are the most unhappy.

It got a bit of track with my philosophical side. Here my take on why you guys are dead wrong about corporate farms.

Look at the vastness of the prairies and the specialists (farmers) scattered across the prairies. These guys are mechanics, managers, agrologists, operators, producers all in one. They are very specialized people, in tune with the land. They are mostly baby-boomers looking to retired in 10 years. Contrary to popular belief there are young people out there ready to take over. Believe me, farms are going to grow in size but only to a certain point.

Farming is unlike a factory where there are all sorts of controls in place. If you say that multi-nationals are going to take over farming, who is going to work for them. If they want well-trained employees they are going to have to pay a good wage. Where are they going to find these people. First of, these people will have to live in a rural setting. According to you guys, rural town will be dead (hence no rural people). So how to we draw someone from the city to work 10 away on farm in rural Saskatchewan where there is nowhere to live.

Now let’s say I am wrong and the multi-nationals find employees. Any corporation will tell you, they are as successful and strong as their people. Just operating machinery on a farm alone takes utmost care and training. How efficient will these operation be when the employees are:

· Driving into sloughs
· Seeding too soon after a rain
· Seeding to deep or to shallow
· Being rough on the equipment
· Plugging the air drill
· Seeding 10 mph
· Spraying with the wrong chemical or wrong rate
· Not cleaning the spray tank out correctly
· Misjudging weather with timing of farm operations
· Putting half the crop our the back of a combine
· Damaging combine do to lack care and maintainance

I could go on and on and one. It not like these employees are working in a factory with strict regulations and close monitoring. They are out on unfamiliar terrain with $500,000 pieces of equipment. It takes years and years to be a good operators.

Now, once again let’s say I am dead wrong. And multi-nationals have farming figured out better than we do currently and can produce better. Why the would they farm? Why would they invest in an operation that on such a combination of uncertainties. And when is this going to happen.

Rather than you guys sitting back and whining about this INEVITABLE. Do something about it. Get off your ass and lobby the government or something. Sitting a chat room everyday spouting off doom and gloom depressed other farmers (increases suicide rate). Let hear positives. Agri-ville should have a chat room with no negative comments allowed.

[dalek]

lakenheath, I'm not particularly pessimistic in regards to multinationals. As a 28 year old farmer, I think there are still a lot of opportunities to be had for a small family farm, if only the majority of farmers can get it through their heads that what makes up a small family farm has changed radically from what they believe it is.
As I've said before, most of the bellyaching I see in my own neighbourhood comes from farmers in the following situation:

Usually in their 50s or 60s
Farming the same amount of land as their fathers did, or slightly more, BUT:where their fathers milked 20-25 cows and fed pigs, the sons decided milking was too much work and switched to 40-50 cow cow-calf operations
-where the fathers farmed most of their lives with loose hay in the mow, graduating to square bales in old age, most of these guys have been round baling for 20 years
-where the fathers cleaned manure every day with a wheelbarrow or stable cleaner, the sons clean out manure once or twice a year with a front-end loader.
-these guys think it should be a God-given right for them to go fishing 3 days every weekend in the summer, hunting for a month every fall, and have the wife (who's working to pay the bills) take them to Cuba for a week every winter

I hope it's different in other places, but here, these are the guys who are constantly complaining that the government should be providing them with at least the same standard of living that their fathers had, even though they're doing a quarter of the work, and they spend most of their time criticizing anyone like me who's working a large enough farm to provide full-time employment as "factory farmers" or corporate sell-outs. These guys aren't "family farmers" anymore, they're hobby farmers who just haven't gotten around to getting a full-time job because that would get in the way of their complaining and coffee-drinking time.

[lakenheath]

dalek: I agree with you 100%. I am a 25 year old farmer attempting to divesify and grow our operation. I work everyday of the year using my holiday time and a an 80% work arrangment to be able to take time off to farm. I absolutely appreciate every minute I am at the farm. It is a very rewarding lifestlye. But it is not for the greedy. It just blows me away the farmers I talk to who's goals are to become millionaires. And then they whine like sissys when things are not going as planned. Get out of farming if you it doesn't provide for your needs or reconsider your needs. Like you said, it is the strickly grain farmers that sit around all winter doing nothing that really get to me.

[lakenheath]

cowman:

What do you do? Seems to me you have quite a bit of time on your hands.

[cakadu]

I heard a fellow speak not too long ago and his advice was "if you don't like what you are doing, go and do something else because life is too short to be doing what you don't like."

I agree that we need to take a look at going back to the smaller farm - not like in years past, but in a manner that allows for making a decent living and having the lifestyle that one chooses. When I mention this at meetings and such, people jump to the conclusion that I mean 5 cows, a couple of pigs and a handful of chickens for fresh eggs. That is not what I am talking about at all.

What I am talking about is farms that pay for themselves and do a good job of supplying our domestic food requirements. It has always made me sad that most of the pre-packaged, refined, time-saving, value-added meals come from countries other than our own? Why is that?

We keep putting money into things that are loosing propositions. The government keeps talking about value-adding, well get on with it then. Ensure that policy allows for this to take place - don't keep hanging on to outdated policies because the larger companies benefit. Let the smaller guy get in there and show his/her stuff.

Part of the problem in my area is that it is these folks with more money than they know what to do with buying up land for prices that will never, ever return a profit on any legal activity.

What can we do to get it back to the grassroots and work in a system that makes sense? The Ag summit process in Alberta got us started, but in the past year, there has been very little mentioned about it. I'm wondering where it is at?

[cowman]

lakenheath: What do I do that I have so much time on my hands? Well lets see: I am not yet fifty. I have a son who does most of the work on the farm and in my oil and gas service business. I have a terminal disease that will kill me within ten years. I actually put in less than 50 hrs. a week.
By the time I was your age I had drilled on big rigs, I'd roughnecked on service rigs, I'd worked in a packing plant and I'd made a lot of money and three kids! I came home to my inheritance(only son) and I worked like hell. The only thing is once you've seen the money it is tough to settle for less. Thus I sort of fell into the oil service business and it has been pretty decent. Much better than farming!
But I come from four generations of farmers here and a lot more back in England/Scotland. My time will end and I hope my son makes millions selling this land. And my grandchildren(two) can live a life of ease if they so choose. The Canadian dream?

[Muttley]

The Canadian dream, I hoped for it myself a long while back. Tried big farming and small farming, tried ranching and just keeping a few head.
Finally came to the conclusion I loved it all and hated it all.

One day I woke up and decided I had, had enough(no pun intended). Decided to start doing things that make us happy not rich. Now I have a few cows(you can have them tonight it's to damn cold for a midnight check), kids keep some sheep and horses. I got me a good job in the agricultural sector.

Happiness thats the "Canadian Dream"

[boone]

Darn I hate confessions, but here goes I started young slept late, but with the right woman, worked her hard found out she could be hellish efficient so I found her another job but she needed more courses. So I told her I'd cut the lawn while she studied. It wasn't a hardship cuzz I moved fast in my NIKEs' got done quick then I ambled over to the fridge I kept out on the sunporch grabbed a square of beers and went fishing in my New Duramax Diesel took along my 240 Winchester to do some yotee shootin on the way to the fishing hole. Doc told me to take it easy no lifting any of the that heavy IKEA furniture he said save yourself boy you gotta be able to push that Joy stick on that new front wheel assist JD when your feeding those six tax steers. When darn it anyway I woke up the dream was over I was still in Sk. my 30 year overnight success was unravelling. I guess I better get over to the Rink and coach the kids that are dropped off by aliens I guess cause I hardly get to meet any parents as they are all like busy plotting the overthrow of us slovenly guys. You must have met some of us when you take a day (morning) off to bury your relatives we make sure the heats on in the church and hall, the dumb salesman get's pulled out of the ditch and the mother inlaw get's the sandwichs' made and delivered to the church. Yea she's pushing 80 but remember my wife can't do it. Not with her two JOBS.

[cowman]

Linda: I think you understand that farming is not all about profit. You could take your money and put it in just about any other business and do a lot better. So why do we do it?
Well quite frankly I've never liked going round and round in a tractor! And I could never see myself tied down to the daily grind of milking cows or working in a hog barn.
But I like to be outside. I like to see all the things in nature. The young bluebirds sitting on the fence, the coyote pups playing by the den. I like checking for weeds and looking for arrowheads. I simply love growing tomatoes and peppers. I like seeing the barn kittens at play and having the farm dogs greet me in the morning. I like building things in the shop and I like trying new things...like berries! Plan to plant one thousand trees this year.
So there is my profit! It works for me. Right now the cattle business is an utter joke. And yet I still get a thrill with each calf born. And yet somehow there has to be a monetary profit in farming? We can't eat this "touchy-feely" stuff. I don't know what the solution is.