Medicare

[Horse]

I was wondering if any one out there could tell me how much it costs per capita say in alta or any province to run the health care before you put a patient in the system. We hear so much about the black hole of health care so what is our fixed costs the hospitals and DR ,nurses ,utilities they all want paid . SO what does a patient actualy cost over and above.
ivbenconned you seem to have a lot of figures do you have this one.

[cowman]

Don't know if this will help but the Alberta gov. budgetted $7.35 BILLION for health care in 2003-2004! Approx $2500/person. Family of four $10,000.
Incidently the Ag Department including all safety nets came to $808 MILLION up from $263 MILLION last year.

[frustrated1]

I'm not so convinced continually throwing more money at the system is the answer. In my opinion we need some accountability from the top down. When the budget looks tight we seem to rid ourselves of the nurses on the floor and keep the administrators. I say skid a few of the admin and keep 2 nurses for every upper crust we skid. Our doctors: Not impressed with about 60% or more of the local crowd. The first visit normally lasts 2 minutes, then you can come back in a few days if your arm hasn't rotted off or something. Ka ching! There's another bill to the govt. Off to tell little jimmy his hangnail will be like that a few days. Ka ching! My dad had a heart attack a couple weeks ago. Despite phoning that we were bringing him in it took 2.5 hours for a doctor to see him in emergency. Then they sent him home with " a pulled muscle". The next trip in got a much better reaction. He survived no thanks to the first bunch. It's not for lack of doctors in our community. The problem is they make too much prescribing cold medicine to be bothered. They actually declared they would no longer deliver babies! One of their excuses listed in the paper was because " babies are unpredictable and come at any hour!" No kidding. What was your proffesion again? But I digress. I agree with Ralph, this system cannot be allowed to go on as it is. I would say there's enough money in the system but it seems to be run by a bunch of liberals. Don't worry about value for the dollar, just give us more!

[Horse]

I agree more money is not the answer but how is privitizing going to help we just pay a different bill collector the DR and underlings still want paid big time and on an 8-5 day none of this late night or close to end of shift stuff. If I am going to pay I think I would just as soon pay the way we are now. But we definatly need more accounting. In the paper there was a picture of a patient sitting across from DR and thr DR says I am refering you to another DR for a golf debt .
Sound familar

[ivbinconned]

When I take a cow to the vet...he gives the bill to the owner...ME

When I go see the doctor...he gives the bill to the owner...

[frustrated1]

My grandfather was one of Dr. Gimbel's first patients. Cost him an extra $1200 back in the '70's, changed his life. Dad just had his done. Now cataract surgery is done as quick as having a good dinner and about the same price(well, not quite). Why? Technology advances and a little competition. Of course there's no guarantee every procedure will end up like that, take power deregulation. Please. I'm hesitant on privitization as well but somthings gotta give. This system is killling us. Maybe even a $10headvisit user fee? At least it would keep little johnny's hangnail or cough from having some quack milk several hundred dollars out of the system for a few visits if we decided to stay home instead. Might even let him wander over to look at the guy with "the pulled muscle"

[cropduster]

Interesting ad on QR77 the other day,sponsored by ARL and Citizen`s for Freedoman Democracy.It said that Alberta sends 1,000,000 taxpayers dollars east every hour.Think how many MRI`s that could buy to prevent improper diagnosis.Let`s tell Ralph to keep that money at home.We could challenge the health care system by putting an MRI in every town where there`s a doctor!!!!!!!!

[cowman]

Health care in Alberta costs 36% of the budget with education not far behind. So that leaves 30% for the rest! Now think about that? All the roads, bridges, airports etc.
Health care and education costs have been rising at over 8% a year while the Alberta economy is expected to rise 3.5% and that is the way it has been for several years. Ralph Klein is very correct when he says the system is not sustainable? And it isn't!
Prince Edward Island spends 56% of its budget on health care!
Medi Care has proven to be a bust. We need a different solution? What would happen if we took that $7.35 BILLION and gave it back to the people of Alberta? Let the whole idea of health care go back to user pay? Maybe have a provincial insurance plan that was run like auto insurance? Of course it would need to be regulated or else the medical mafia would really put the screws on!
But consider it. Have say a $2000 deductable. The first $2000 you pay anything over that the insurance kicks in? If Momma had to pay $50 to take Johnny to the doctor she might have to become responsible?

[cakadu]

Therein lies part of the problem. People are going to the doctor and/or emergency room for things that a few years ago we would just have monitored at home. That isn't to say that everyone is abusing the system, but there are those that do. Every little sniffle, cough or wheeze, hangnail etc. gets trotted off to the doctor "just to be on the safe side." When does common sense prevail? If the waiting rooms are crowded with people who have the flu and they are looking for antibiotics, that's a waste of everyone's time. Emergency personnel are called out when it is not warranted at all.

There are those that abuse the system - no matter which system it is. That big old SUV gets a scratch on it - into the body shop it goes and the bill goes to the insurance company. How many false or frivolous insurance claims are there per year?

How do we draw the line and what do we use for criteria? Like most things, we want quick fixes. Do something for a cold and it lasts seven days, do nothing and it lasts a week.

[boone]

cakadu: speaking of health costs, has anyone noticed since the patent on drugs in Canada was extended to 21 years the cost of Original manufacture drugs has climbed as well as the profitability of the same pharma companies. Why do we keep knuckling under to these profit pirates and then dance around wringing our hands. "Health care is going up, Health Care is going up"! Go figure, and take a look for yourselves the two charts could be soldered together and they wouldn't have any more direct correlation! Generic chemical has saved our farms and it could do a heck of alot more for health care. I apoligize to any and all Liberal candidates in Montreal (home of big medicine in Canada) ridings who may have been harmed during this rant. Oh Well!

[cowman]

The costs of some drugs are a scandal! And apparently it is even worse in the USA, as they seem to be buying drugs on a large scale in Canada over the internet?
I had to take some fairly expensive drugs the last couple of years. $4/pill! Three times a day!
Now this pill was just a little bitty thing about the size of those baby aspirins and I often wondered how much a pound they would have been worth? Anyway they made me sick as a dog so I quit taking them!
I suspect the Pharmaceutical companies know how to take care of business!!! In the US they are real cozy with the power elite and I suspect it is probably the same here in Canada? Part of the Medical Mafia?

[boone]

Post: The sad part this patent protection was helped in by an out of work ex-Liberal Federal MP from B.C. during the Mulroney government. She will remain nameless here, but I had the chance to watch her in an interview since. She obviously was sick about her involvement and was quite beside herself with the outcome. I believe she is a senator now, so she may make amends?

[Horse]

Everyone has avalid point in thier view but what no one answered and I still dont know is if on one went to the DR or ER or hospital what do you do with the people in the madical business . And sure if mom didnt take little johny to the DR do you think the DR wouldnt get paid dram on he would adjust the pay scale or something .
We need some kind of reform but does it matter if we pay through the govmt or pay in cash , but pay we will . I think there is room for efficancy in the program take the U of A in edmonton they say they can save 150,000 per yr if the employes return thier scrubs I dont know what they do with them now unless they polish thier cars on thier 4 days off a week.

[carebear300]

Like usual I don't have the answer but do have some observations on the operation of this system. Over the last six or seven years my mother has had really bad, in fact criminally bad knees, they were wore right out. It started first when here family doctor wouldn't refer her to a specialist, thank goodness her chiropractor did finally, two years later you see specialist. Then a year and a half or so later scheduled for first knee but it takes another nine months to get it done. Then another year later the last knee gets done. But by this time her back his bad from famoring her bad knees, two weeks ago after numerous trips to doctor and hundreds of dollars worth of pills she is back going to the chiropractor and is getting relief. As far as I can see we have to make major improvements in the system really quick or scrap it entirely, there seems to be no accountability. You can't raise hell about it or you will never get nothing done or worse yet just get a real hatchet job. At least if the whole episode was privatized if you weren't satisfied with your treatment you could complain and if it didn't improve you could change doctors and hospitals.

[countryguy]

This may be off topic and unapropriate for this room but I and I am sure many others have to know what percentage of the healthcare budgets get spent on the natives?

The majority of these people don't eat right and are obese,drink like fish,don't exercise and beat the heck out of each other.And to top it off they are breeding like rabbits further escalating the problem.Just how long are we going to be able to keep paying for this?

I don't know what it is like in other parts but around here they get free cab rides to the doctor,and it doesn't matter from how far away.A free ride there and back.Most of the time they make the appointment just to get the free ride to town with the whole point of the trip being to pickup a bottle of whisky or a case of beer.My feelings are if your not going to contribute anything to society at least don't incur any additional expense for the ones that are fighting to pay for it.

If this sounded racist it wasn't meant to be.It's just the way I see things around here.

My recommendations for the health care system would be:
1)A ten dollar fee to see the doctor(as stated before)with free follow ups on initial visits-this will prevent old people who are only suffering from loneliness from visiting with the doctor and possibly prevent people who really don't need medical attention from coming to the doctor.

2)Control native abuse of the health care system and promote healthier living with less alcoholism and physical abuse in their culture.