Independent

[cakadu]

There but for the grace of God, go I.

It is a known fact that most people are but 2 paycheques away from the street. Bear in mind that is being gainfully employed and seeing a paycheque every 2 weeks, which is certainly not the case in the primary production business.

Management and managing risks do play a big part in how well one will ride these things out. I have stated many times that we are overcapitalized, which is the major source of our production problems. We also tend to expand and go deeper into debt when we are doing good - that is a fact of life and human nature as well. That is the topic of another discussion, however.

All that aside, sometimes one has absoultely no control over things as is the case right now in the livestock sector. Imagine if you will a farm family who have machinery payments to make, the transmission goes out on the tractor, the truck gets rolled, the furnace in the house goes, animals need to be fed and the animals you thought were going to be gone by now are worth even less than in the fall, utilities keep going up, the garden couldn't be watered last year because of the drought and what did come up the grasshoppers got and the list can go on and on.

You start adding up these stresses and people don't think straight, have no hope and cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel. I don't think it fair to make assumptions about why farmers are going to a foodbank without knowing the circumstances of their being there.

Think of how demoralizing it is for people to have to go there in the first place.

We do what we can based on the available information at the time and we make decisions based on that information. Hindsight makes them good or bad, depending on how you want to look at it.

Are many people living beyond their means - quite likely; do they need all the "things" they think they need - probably not, but they do it anyway.

Sometimes it is really just a matter of being in the right or wrong place at the time.

I always keep thinking - there but for the grace of God, go I because one day it could be me and I would hope that others would show me compassion.

[StrawBoss]

Horse: people like me (farmer) solve our own problems because I know tax dollars will never fix anything and I look at farming as a business--- it looks like the government did a number on you so they better fix it and train that cow so it’s not trying to kill you.

[cakadu]

Strawboss - those are 2 very important statements that you've made. The first being that farming is a business and it has to be managed like one.

The other is that these "aid" packages are not going to do anyone any good in the long run, particularly those that are geared to low interest loans. From what I can see, you cannot borrow your way out of a financial problem.

Any solutions that we find have to be for the long term, environmentally friendly and economically sustainable.

Interdependence is one way to becoming more business-minded.

[cowman]

In any business there has to be a decent rate of return on your investment or else it really isn't a business at all but a playground to occupy your time. We all know businesses that are nothing more than a rich man playing games?
Farming is in fact rapidly going that way? I would suggest even the most astute business oriented farmer is not getting a decent return on his investment? And I don't mean that old garbage...My Daddy bought this land for $20/acre back in 1947...that land is worth X dollars today and that is what you need the return on!
The fact is food prices have not kept up with inflation and they will continue to slide. We hear how we can "value add" and capture more of the profit, but in reality you are not a farmer then but have now become a processer/manufacturer/marketer? And if that is where you are making the money, why produce the base product? Just buy it and make money processing it and marketing it?
I talked to one of the better grain farmers last spring about how he had managed during the drought of 2002. He said" Oh I guess I did better than most. Got a decent wheat crop. Sold the barley/canola for silage and did all right on crop insurance. But you know it doesn't take many brains to net $50,000 on a $10 million dollar investment! I have no idea why I continue to do this!"
There are people on other forums who tell me they can make it on 30 bu. barley and 12 cent cows...and if they can all the power to them! They sure look at things differently than I do. Maybe that is the trick to farming sucessfully? Just cook the books sort of thing?

[cheetah]

Cowman, I agree with your statement. I think the big problem that we as farmers are confronting is the fact, that our costs (input, vet., parts,etc.etc.) have gone up steadily and our products (grain, oilseeds, cattle, hogs, poultry, etc.) remain almost the same or worse. As Strawboss says, farmers like any other industry have to be efficient to be able to make a profit. But, since we as farmers are "pricetakers", and therefore cannot increase our prices based on our costs, efficiency will not help us anymore.

[cakadu]

What if the farmer of today has to act more like a business person and at least think about marketing and where the products are going to go so that he/she can capture more of the value and get away from being a price taker?

The time may have come for us to shift our thinking of the traditional definition for a farmer/producer.

[ValueChainFX]

The future of the industry is still bright for those that want to see it! Some folks will not make it in these times but not for the lack of trying! It's fine to be independent, but many of the primary producers in Canada have in the past few months been given the wake up call! There are people in every component of the supply chain that are ready and willing to set up the system that bridges the information gaps that hold us all apart! The pieces are being put together, but keep in mind it is very challenging to say the least when even those folks that want to think outside the box are skeptical of those that do! (And rightfully so) Those people that are skeptical and verbal about it, should be prepared to make whatever plan is on the table better! Don't be jumping up and down that some ones work is not good enough unless you are prepared to jump on board and help out! Or is this the wrong way of thinking?

[cakadu]

Value chain - what specifically are you referring to in your statement about people needing to put ideas on the table if they are skeptical? I'm trying to understand where you are coming from.

[cowman]

valuechain: While I support what you are trying to achieve and do believe the process can capture more profit for the primary producer, I still believe there is a problem with the amount of pie to be sliced up. Food prices are quite frankly not high enough to cover the increases in the input costs. And I really don't see that changing.
Consider if we do have a new gen co-op and recover more of the profit. That steak or roast can only rise so far and then in comes the foreign beef? The cheap food policy is very real although not written down anywhere! The politicians won't allow food to rise beyond a certain level...they can't, they'd get booted out of their cushy jobs?
I don't want to rain on your parade! What you are doing is a good thing that will delay the the day of reckoning. But that day must come and all people in Canada must answer the question...Do we see any value in keeping a viable agricultural industry and are we prepared to pay for it? Because quite frankly this cost/price squeeze is squeezing the lifeblood out of agriculture in this country. And maybe if the Canadian public believes we are not useful or of some value then agriculture should cease in this country?

[ValueChainFX]

cakadu at the moment the industry is in obvious turmoil! That puts' it lightly! We have spent countless hours in meetings with government, producers, and every segment of the supply chain as well as supporters of our supply chain! What we have experienced in many cases is that the off the record meetings have revealed that some of our most talented people in the industry say one thing in private and other things in public that influence our choices! This should come as no surprise to anyone as we all know that goes on! We talk about cooperation and moving the industry in one direction than we will all have to provide the input to do it!
I look at folks like cowman and see the years of experience and knowledge behind his thought process and also see he has probably been "Burnt" more than once. I read your words and see that the struggles you have gone through have added to your knowledge base! So you are the very people that by virtue of your experience and knowledge should be looking at some of these new industry plans and providing input! I really do appreciate the input you provide here but also believe it has value in molding the model of the future!
To touch base on what cowman referred to as a cost/price thing in Canada. I would totally agree with you if all I provided is what I think is a commodity product (A product that can be mass produced on an assembly line) however, many Canadian products are looked at as a superior product and the price points can go up with each value added input! Even the big guys know this to be true, but some products just do not work in their systems! But they will in ours, it's my opinion that corporations moved the agriculture infrastructure to the city and now the agriculture industry is paying for it! Just my opinion and thoughts.