Independent

[StrawBoss]

Independence, greed and mismanagement keep’s farmers from developing a long lasting sustainable industry. It’s amazing how farmers start talking cooperation when things are bad, and as soon as things start to improve they all go back to their own independent ways.
It’s like addiction to alcohol, drugs and cigarettes and you decide to quit, it has to be a lifetime commitment or it doesn’t work.

The key to any success is to have a long-term commitment plan, and that means manage your farms independently but cooperate with the entire food chain—don’t just assume everybody is making more money than the farmer, because if they are it’s good management and not just a rip off.
I think the farmers had a turn in ripping off some of the government programs that looked promising at one time, but there seems to be some memory loss in that area.
The tax dollars will never solve all the problems so lets not set back and howl and wait for the government to solve the problems we create.

To solve our problems we have to get organized through cooperation and stay committed and supportive for the entire food chain.
I don’t know if is possible to scrap all these independent useless farm organizations and start one that would accommodate members from all parts of he food chain to participate. This kind of an organization could police the food chain for corruption. There would be no need for subsidies in the food chain because the consumer pays the bill.
Everybody along the food chain needs a reasonable profit to keep the chain from breaking. Its crap to constantly hear the farmers are not making any money, if that was true there would be no farmers around--- it’s like any other business there are ups and down and poor future planning and management contribute to most bankruptcies.

We don’t want the big feedlots making any money, but at the same token we sure in hell don’t want to feed our own cattle--- if we did maybe you could have ripped off the government subsidies.

The way I see it a lot of the farmers don’t have a long term plan, they expand thinking of making a fast buck by beating the neighbour.

Do some research on products that you produce and keep in mind that you are working in a global market ( it is garbage to say you have no time because you are too busy feeding cows )

Example, how research and good management could contributes to success.
If you look at other countries that had BSE --- the problem doesn’t go away in a short term--- so the writing was on the wall—that means downsize--- caves should have been sold this fall (the price was over a dollar a pound) and there was some profit in that price--- “ hindsight you say”---no--- good management.

This fall canola was $9.50 a bushel, some farmers wouldn’t sell-- wanted more money, but later sold at $7.50 to pay bills—is that good management or a little stupid? I know one makes money at $7.00 a bushel. Now canola is a good price I wander how many fools will hold out for more money?

I know farmers are having a hard go right now ( we all need to eat so the food chain will always be here) and it is not the end of the world but a wakeup call for the farming industry to re-organize through cooperation.

[raymondb]

Well said Strawman. I would like to add that we must organize with cooperation and knowledge with an indebt understanding of what our product must go through from production right to the end user-the consumer.The most successful producer will be the one who can produce a product that the customer wants while surviving all the ups and downs in this industry. We must not rely on Government handouts as the taxpayer will soon want to see what he is gaining because of the handouts.

[cakadu]

I agree with your statements Straw Boss. I don't know at what point things changed, but we went from being interdependent to independent. I don't see that being interdependent on a group of like minded persons will in any way jeopardize one's independence.

What we need to hear are the positive stories and outcomes with respect to people having worked together and becoming sustainable doing it.

The current way we are practicing agriculture is not sustainable into the future. We need to understand what has worked and also what hasn't worked in order to make sound decisions for the future. Not all producers will go down and I feel badly for those that are faced with those dire circumstances right now. I wouldn't wish that on anyone, especially when it hasn't been through any real fault of their own.

Holding out for more seems to be more and more of a trait that people have. It has disturbed me for some time now how the gap between the haves and the have nots has been increasing and those of us in the middle just seem to be treading water.

My heart always will be with the smaller more innovative type thinkers who work together to accomplish a goal. That is truly where the sustainability is going to come from.

[cowman]

I have thought about this whole thing a lot and have come to the conclusion that #1 co-operation is not going to happen? And further more I can not compete(nor do I want to even try) with people who think they can make a living with 30 bushel barley or 12 cent cows! It just doesn't make sense! There are so many other things in this world to make money, that I just refuse to work for nothing or slave wages. I liked raising cattle but not enough to pay to do it!
So have at her boys and I will join Strawboss on the golf links.

[boone]

post: I believe part of it is the polarization of our society. On one hand some workers have negotiated a (AND POWER TO THEM IF THEY ARE ABLE) different level of support, for instance maternity leave for dads, strong wage, overtime etc. I'm not saying right or wrong. However at the other extreme some cattle guy has his nine year old raking hay and driving bale truck as well as his wife,(when she's home) father and probably granny helping out at no or little cost except life limb and general wear and tear. So how as cowman says do you with a clear eyed view want to continue at this ridiculous extreme. Everytime someone picks up a dozen eggs for a dollar fifty, or a loaf of bread for a buck, one of the formentioned has given from their pile, to the general public without the proper due. At some point it breaksdown. I suspect now will be one of those times.

[Horse]

I dont want to seem disrespectal to the slayn mountie but I cant help but wonder when I see the outporing for their welfare but when a farmer looses his or her life we dont even rate more than a quick note once on the news 120 farmers die doing thier job a yr and 1200 injured thats out of 200,000 I dont think there is a more dangerous job with less resources for backup and I feel we are a nessary lot.
I am going along with cowman I have basicly quit already but old habits die slow.
If anyone knows where to surender with dignity I would appreaciate knowing where

[StrawBoss]

Horse: a farmer’s job is not dangerous unless you choose to be reckless.

[cakadu]

To put a different slant on cowman's thought - how easy is it to say I'll let it all go when your family's well being is solely dependent on what you do as a producer?

If both husband and wife are working off the farm, then maybe it is time to take a long hard look at it and see if it is what you need to do - let go. On the other hand if one is working off the farm and the other trying to bring in what they can farming, then the decision becomes tougher. I'm sure it becomes tougher yet when the only income has been from farming, the farmer himself is in his mid-fifties and faced with the prospect of having to find work at his age.

The older we get, the harder it is to change and the harder it is to find gainful employ, particularly if you don't have a degree and/or have spent your life working on the farm.

I don't think there is any right or wrong - people have to make that decision for themselves, as agonizing as it must be sometimes. It's great if you can make the decision and not have to worry about where the job is going to be and how soon you can count on that steady paycheck.

[StrawBoss]

It is hard at the present time to visualize a bright future for the farming industry, but it’s there if we look hard enough-- food is a necessity that means a guarantee that the industry is here for a long haul.

Farmers will have to start realizing that globalization and the ever-changing consumer demands warns changes to the way we produce food to stay in business—if we don’t accommodate the customer they will import what they want.

We all live in our own little world and start to dwell on all the negatives and that is not healthy or productive. Change brings hardship to some because they are afraid they will get lost along the way.

Farmers should take a good hard look at how most of the employees really live --- both man and wife working and at times two jobs to keep food on the table and drive that new car--- stressed out because they have house, car (lease or rent) payments and no job is secure anymore or is just part time.
We envy people that appear to live a better life, but do they (as the saying goes beauty is only skin deep)

I always look at all the positives first and it seems that most of the negative loose their harshness--- you will realize how rich you really are--- maybe not in immediate cash but in lifestyle and equity.
It is a gross mismanagement ( and should add lazy ) that a farmer/food producer has to go to a food bank.

Panic decisions are almost always wrong, so in these tying times for farmers a person has to take some extra time and kick around plan A, B, C and maybe E to survive in the future food producing industry.

[Horse]

Strawbos I would agree that farming is not dongerous if we had the support services and resources of other professions I cant even begin to afford the safety eqgipt of say the oil business or medical or even the local grocery store.
When did you last see the bankers wife helping him hold his pen or the DR wife helping with a patient without pay and the patient weighs 1800# and is madder than hell and bent on killing you not to mention it is -30 and 4 in the morning and no one knows you are in trouble .
I suspect you or people like you are the trouble with this business as the govmt will pick up on a statment like yours and say see all is well on the farm .

[cakadu]

There but for the grace of God, go I.

It is a known fact that most people are but 2 paycheques away from the street. Bear in mind that is being gainfully employed and seeing a paycheque every 2 weeks, which is certainly not the case in the primary production business.

Management and managing risks do play a big part in how well one will ride these things out. I have stated many times that we are overcapitalized, which is the major source of our production problems. We also tend to expand and go deeper into debt when we are doing good - that is a fact of life and human nature as well. That is the topic of another discussion, however.

All that aside, sometimes one has absoultely no control over things as is the case right now in the livestock sector. Imagine if you will a farm family who have machinery payments to make, the transmission goes out on the tractor, the truck gets rolled, the furnace in the house goes, animals need to be fed and the animals you thought were going to be gone by now are worth even less than in the fall, utilities keep going up, the garden couldn't be watered last year because of the drought and what did come up the grasshoppers got and the list can go on and on.

You start adding up these stresses and people don't think straight, have no hope and cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel. I don't think it fair to make assumptions about why farmers are going to a foodbank without knowing the circumstances of their being there.

Think of how demoralizing it is for people to have to go there in the first place.

We do what we can based on the available information at the time and we make decisions based on that information. Hindsight makes them good or bad, depending on how you want to look at it.

Are many people living beyond their means - quite likely; do they need all the "things" they think they need - probably not, but they do it anyway.

Sometimes it is really just a matter of being in the right or wrong place at the time.

I always keep thinking - there but for the grace of God, go I because one day it could be me and I would hope that others would show me compassion.

[StrawBoss]

Horse: people like me (farmer) solve our own problems because I know tax dollars will never fix anything and I look at farming as a business--- it looks like the government did a number on you so they better fix it and train that cow so it’s not trying to kill you.

[cakadu]

Strawboss - those are 2 very important statements that you've made. The first being that farming is a business and it has to be managed like one.

The other is that these "aid" packages are not going to do anyone any good in the long run, particularly those that are geared to low interest loans. From what I can see, you cannot borrow your way out of a financial problem.

Any solutions that we find have to be for the long term, environmentally friendly and economically sustainable.

Interdependence is one way to becoming more business-minded.

[cowman]

In any business there has to be a decent rate of return on your investment or else it really isn't a business at all but a playground to occupy your time. We all know businesses that are nothing more than a rich man playing games?
Farming is in fact rapidly going that way? I would suggest even the most astute business oriented farmer is not getting a decent return on his investment? And I don't mean that old garbage...My Daddy bought this land for $20/acre back in 1947...that land is worth X dollars today and that is what you need the return on!
The fact is food prices have not kept up with inflation and they will continue to slide. We hear how we can "value add" and capture more of the profit, but in reality you are not a farmer then but have now become a processer/manufacturer/marketer? And if that is where you are making the money, why produce the base product? Just buy it and make money processing it and marketing it?
I talked to one of the better grain farmers last spring about how he had managed during the drought of 2002. He said" Oh I guess I did better than most. Got a decent wheat crop. Sold the barley/canola for silage and did all right on crop insurance. But you know it doesn't take many brains to net $50,000 on a $10 million dollar investment! I have no idea why I continue to do this!"
There are people on other forums who tell me they can make it on 30 bu. barley and 12 cent cows...and if they can all the power to them! They sure look at things differently than I do. Maybe that is the trick to farming sucessfully? Just cook the books sort of thing?

[cheetah]

Cowman, I agree with your statement. I think the big problem that we as farmers are confronting is the fact, that our costs (input, vet., parts,etc.etc.) have gone up steadily and our products (grain, oilseeds, cattle, hogs, poultry, etc.) remain almost the same or worse. As Strawboss says, farmers like any other industry have to be efficient to be able to make a profit. But, since we as farmers are "pricetakers", and therefore cannot increase our prices based on our costs, efficiency will not help us anymore.