For Dml

[Hamloc]

Dml apparently you believe those of us who have yet to be vaccinated are spectacularly unintelligent.
So here is my personal outlook. I am not an anti vaxxer. To be honest up until a while ago I was just a proficient procrastinator, just never got around to it. But I got my back up when AHS mandated vaccinations and those who weren’t vaxxed were basically fired. This affected 3 people close to me. One of the 3 had tested positive during the last year the other 2 had not. The reality is that vaccinated or unvaccinated you can carry the virus. When working with patients you are in full ppe so the risk should be minimal. Now with Omicron Covid has developed a work around on the vaccine. Personally I think the elderly and those most vulnerable are the ones that required the vaccine. Will I get vaccinated now? Not likely.

As for you Dml, it is disappointing that someone who considers himself so intelligent can come across as such a jerk. Regardless, have a Merry Christmas.

[jazz]

Dml is still on a math and stats kick even though vaccine failure and vaccine injury are staring him in the face.

But good news. A real vaccine has been approved in the EU today. One with sterilizing immunity like a vaccine is supposed to do. Billions of people will need to be revaxxed.

I would be pIssed if I got talked into something from our government that wasn’t thoroughly tested. Instead the delusional defend it.

[shtferbrains]

Dml is still on a math and stats kick even though vaccine failure and vaccine injury are staring him in the face.

But good news. A real vaccine has been approved in the EU today. One with sterilizing immunity like a vaccine is supposed to do. Billions of people will need to be revaxxed.

I would be pIssed if I got talked into something from our government that wasn’t thoroughly tested. Instead the delusional defend it.

By sterilizing immunity do you mean people vaxed with Novavax will be unlikely to be using ICU beds and life has some chance of returning to normal?

[jazz]

By sterilizing immunity do you mean people vaxed with Novavax will be unlikely to be using ICU beds and life has some chance of returning to normal?

Meaning there is no virus escape upon contact, just like with every other successful vaccine we have created.

Your immune system destroys it completely. You cant pass it nor can you ever get it again. And if you need a booster, its 10 yrs out, not 3 months.

JHC I dont know what these therapies from Pfizer are anymore. I mean we developed a vaxx for something similar like TB 50 yrs ago. There were entire hospitals built for that disease. New tech is garbage.

[fjlip]

I believe the SA Dr, it's an allergic reaction to the spike proteins in less than 1% of infected, like peanuts or bee stings. Our immune system can kill the SOB virus 99% of time. And NO mRNA or adenovaccines are going to stop that.

[dmlfarmer]

Dml apparently you believe those of us who have yet to be vaccinated are spectacularly unintelligent.
So here is my personal outlook. I am not an anti vaxxer. To be honest up until a while ago I was just a proficient procrastinator, just never got around to it. But I got my back up when AHS mandated vaccinations and those who weren’t vaxxed were basically fired. This affected 3 people close to me. One of the 3 had tested positive during the last year the other 2 had not. The reality is that vaccinated or unvaccinated you can carry the virus. When working with patients you are in full ppe so the risk should be minimal. Now with Omicron Covid has developed a work around on the vaccine. Personally I think the elderly and those most vulnerable are the ones that required the vaccine. Will I get vaccinated now? Not likely.

As for you Dml, it is disappointing that someone who considers himself so intelligent can come across as such a jerk. Regardless, have a Merry Christmas.

Hamloc: The poem was not arguing about covid or vaccines. It was about the growing lack of respect on agriville for anyone that has a different opinion. The stanzas on vax were just an example, as were the ones on climate change, trudeau, etc.

So you are insulted by my comments. How do you think easterns feel about comments made by Agrivillers? How do you think Liberals feel when liberal is often used as a slur when posters don't agree with someone and seek to insult them? How do you think city people feel about farmers when those farmers insinuate that it is only farmers and oil workers who produce something that work as so often is claimed on this site. Farmers have enough problems without bringing more on themselves by derogatory comments about those who are ultimately our customers. I guarantee, there are a lot of posts made on agriville that if read by city people would really harm the image of farmers and our industry. That is what I was trying to point out and for people to think about when posting.

As far as your position on vaxes, I know I will not change your mind and will not even try. That is your decision. I know very well not everyone will get vaxxed. In fact, last spring on this site I predicted only 2/3rds would get vaxed (before mandates). If is up to the individual to weight the risks and benefits and of the vaccines vs the disease and the mandate costs of not getting vaccinated.

For once, I agree with Kenney. Everyone is going to get Covid sometime. Covid is a novel respiratory disease that is highly contagious. Before it appeared no one had natural immunity to it. Immunity is gained by either exposure or vaccines than mimic exposure. And even though immunity decreases over time, the amazing human body remembers that first exposure and resultant contractions are not as severe than for someone who has never been exposed. Until we reach the point where Covid patients do not overwhelm the health system we are stuck in pandemic mode. Once all have been exposed through contraction or vaccination, it will become endemic - like the seasonal flu - and we will live with it.

[dmlfarmer]

Dml is still on a math and stats kick even though vaccine failure and vaccine injury are staring him in the face.

But good news. A real vaccine has been approved in the EU today. One with sterilizing immunity like a vaccine is supposed to do. Billions of people will need to be revaxxed.

I would be pIssed if I got talked into something from our government that wasn’t thoroughly tested. Instead the delusional defend it.

Jazz the Novavax did not recieve full approval, It was granted conditional emergency authorization just as the MRNA vaxes received. That Novavax vaccine will not provide sterilizing immunity. In tests it was less effective than the MRNA vaccines so there are still break through. It requires a booster shot to maintain immunity Novavax was created through genetic engineering, therefore many will argue that this is not a natural vaccine like you claim. Novavax has already announced it has to modify the vaccine for the Omicron variant. All that said, thank God we have one more vaccine available.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/eu-approves-5th-covid-19-vaccine-bloc-novavax-81855223

[jazz]

Props to dml for meeting us in rural issues to chat.

Simple question. Does the current spread of covid have anything to do with the unvaxxed? I will point out that delta still comprised most of the cases and omicron displacing it. 3x vaxxed make up 10% of new cases.

This is not a math anomaly anymore.

[Hamloc]

Hamloc: The poem was not arguing about covid or vaccines. It was about the growing lack of respect on agriville for anyone that has a different opinion. The stanzas on vax were just an example, as were the ones on climate change, trudeau, etc.

So you are insulted by my comments. How do you think easterns feel about comments made by Agrivillers? How do you think Liberals feel when liberal is often used as a slur when posters don't agree with someone and seek to insult them? How do you think city people feel about farmers when those farmers insinuate that it is only farmers and oil workers who produce something that work as so often is claimed on this site. Farmers have enough problems without bringing more on themselves by derogatory comments about those who are ultimately our customers. I guarantee, there are a lot of posts made on agriville that if read by city people would really harm the image of farmers and our industry. That is what I was trying to point out and for people to think about when posting.

As far as your position on vaxes, I know I will not change your mind and will not even try. That is your decision. I know very well not everyone will get vaxxed. In fact, last spring on this site I predicted only 2/3rds would get vaxed (before mandates). If is up to the individual to weight the risks and benefits and of the vaccines vs the disease and the mandate costs of not getting vaccinated.

For once, I agree with Kenney. Everyone is going to get Covid sometime. Covid is a novel respiratory disease that is highly contagious. Before it appeared no one had natural immunity to it. Immunity is gained by either exposure or vaccines than mimic exposure. And even though immunity decreases over time, the amazing human body remembers that first exposure and resultant contractions are not as severe than for someone who has never been exposed. Until we reach the point where Covid patients do not overwhelm the health system we are stuck in pandemic mode. Once all have been exposed through contraction or vaccination, it will become endemic - like the seasonal flu - and we will live with it.

Dml there is little I can disagree with in your above post except for this, if your poem as you state was to point out the growing lack of respect on Agriville it failed spectacularly.

[dmlfarmer]

Props to dml for meeting us in rural issues to chat.

Simple question. Does the current spread of covid have anything to do with the unvaxxed? I will point out that delta still comprised most of the cases and omicron displacing it. 3x vaxxed make up 10% of new cases.

This is not a math anomaly anymore.

Sorry Jazz, I am not joining anyone in this forum. I merely stopped by because Hamloc addressed me personally. And I happened to read your misinformation about the Novavax so I responded while on the site just like as I have called you out before when there would be no more deaths in the US, Covid would disappear after the election etc etc.

. As far as your question - my answer is the same as I gave Hamloc. Covid is never going away and will effect both vaxed and unvaxed. Given it is a novel disease, anyone who has never been exposed either through contraction or vaccination is at a much higher risk. Once our health care system can keep up, we will finally be able to end the pandemic protocals and live with it, just as we do the seasonal flu, and just as happened with the Spanish flu after 3 years. The spanish flu is still around, but humans carry a memory of it so it is no longer as deadly as it was in 1918.

[fjlip]

"Covid is never going away and will effect both vaxed and unvaxed."

So WHY Vax? Adverse effects hurt/maim/kill healthy people. How can that not be A TRAGEDY? Every death is a TRAGEDY if covid related, more likely MIS LABBELLED, but Not a Vax related death?

Tragedy is those who don't think and question the whole covid two years of shady facts.

[dmlfarmer]

"Covid is never going away and will effect both vaxed and unvaxed."

So WHY Vax? Adverse effects hurt/maim/kill healthy people. How can that not be A TRAGEDY? Every death is a TRAGEDY if covid related, more likely MIS LABBELLED, but Not a Vax related death?

Tragedy is those who don't think and question the whole covid two years of shady facts.

Easy question for me to answer. Because Covid is a dangerous and deadly virus. Stats from around the world consistantly show 4 out of 100 unvaxed people will end up in hospital. 1 or 2 of those 4 will die. Those numbers go way down for vaxed people. And yes there are adverse effects from the vax, but the rate of adverse effects, hospitalization, and deaths from the vax are thousands times lower than the rates from Covid.

There have been 274,213,886 documented cases of Covid world wide. 5,349,699 deaths have been attributed to covid giving a death rate of 1.8%

There have been 8,735,310,360 doses of vaccine administered. So if vaxes had the same death rate of 1.8% there should have been 157,230,000 deaths from the vaccine . Where are all these deaths if vaxes are just as dangerous?

Until everyone has been exposed to the virus, either by contracting covid or by getting a vaccine that mimics covid, health care systems around the world will be stressed. And because of that, other medical needs of people will not be met because the health care system is focused on covid.

Science and actual data show the health risk of covid is much higher than vaxes so that is the first reason why I accepted the vaccine. I weighted the risk and reward of vaccine compared to covid and the answer to me is clear.

Second, I trust science. If I didn't I would not be using glyphosate or any chemicals or GMOs. It is hypocritical to argue that the science behind vaccines is flawed yet at the same time to not question the science behind the products we apply to food crops and market to consumers.

Third, the biggest tragedy is those needing urgent health care and cannot get it because hospital beds are covid full. That person waiting in pain could be a family member or even myself. I will do all I can to get this pandemic over with and that includes reducing the risk of going to the hospital because of covid. I believe I have a duty to not only myself, but to protect society too.

Finally, when my time comes and I am asked why I should enter the pearly gates, I can say that I did what I could to help and overcome this virus. I will not be the one of those who admit they refused to do what they could to end the pandemic because they were only concerned about themselves. Maybe your God is more forgiving of those who are only concerned for themselves than mine is.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

dml, as usual, I appreciate your typically level headed well researched responses.

And as usual, I don't have to agree with everything you say, to respect your opinion.

In fact, I quite appreciate that we have different perspectives, I learn a lot more discussing with someone I disagree with, than I ever could just patting eachother on the back for all agreeing with each other.
It forces me to question my position, and my sources, and do further research, and make certain my position is defendable, and that I don't contradict myself.

I agree with most everything you stated in the above Covid post. the stats I see indicate that the vaccine ( at least until recently) has been very effective at keeping people out of the hospital, and keeping them from the most serious outcomes. While becomine increasinly useless, if not even beyond useless at stopping the spread, or preventing them from contracting Covid.
And I am fine with that, given the short notice, it is amazing that we could come up with a tool that bought us that much time, and saved that many lives, and more or less kept our hospital system from breaking down. I expect that the current trend will hold, and the anecdotal, but statistically insignificant adverse effects will be minor compared to the benefits.

What it doesn't do is justify the wide open policy for vaccinated people, nor the arbitrary restrictions on unvaccinated. Given the data about spread by vaccinated people.

It doesn't get us any closer to an end to the pandemic. Herd immunity now proving to be an impossible goal, either through vaccines, or contracting Covid( although there is certainly conflicting data on this).

Unfortunately, the vaccine was sold to the populace as something that it clearly couldn't deliver on. I doubt that was malicious, or intentional, but it reflects badly on those in positions of authority that they won't back down from that stance inspite of overwhelming evidence. I can understand how this broken trust is breeding conspiracies, and even more lack of trust in authorities.

I hope you will keep posting, on this, and other topics. The message has a lot more merit coming from you, than from a few of the other yahoo's who were making a career of making pro vaccine posts full of insults, and lacking in facts.
Although, I must admit, I'm not much of a fan of poetry.

[jazz]

Omicron was humanity's chance to get naturally vaccinated with an milder attenuated version of covid, but it appears we are going to hide from that too and prolong this even more.

Boosters wont work against this and millions of people got played again.

I mean how many times can you get played like that before you stand up and ask questions.

As far as the vaccines reducing serious outcomes, there is no evidence of that. Since cases can be very mild or asymptomatic we have no idea if these would have progressed to something worse with or without the vaccines.

If the immunity wanes in a few short months there is strong reason to believe it was fleeting to begin with. Basically a society wide placebo.

[dmlfarmer]

Af5, thanks for the comments. I once posted that I think you and I could have a great debate and I have no doubt that we would both learn from each other and both be better for it.

I only post for one of three reasons: 1. I have knowledge, or an opinion to share which has not already been made. If a point has been well made, I will not waste my time or others farmer's time by saying the same thing over again. 2. I will challenge posters who are using flawed data, information, or outright BS to make a point. I will only do this if I know and have proof that the information they are posting is wrong and will provide a link to that proof in my rebuttal to them. 3 If I am addressed or questioned directly. So no promises that I will continue on this site, especially if it continues to degrade to cat fighting and personal attacks ( which is what my stupid poem tried to point out and which I justify under my first reason for posting.)

Now under reason 3, here is my response to points you made. "the vaccine was sold to the populace as something that it clearly couldn't deliver on" I am not sure if vaccines were oversold as much as it was the case of people hearing what they wanted to hear. Never has any pharma or goverenment claimed their vax was 100% effective. Best case data shows low 90% effective when introduced and some like the JandJ and AZ was much lower. It was everyday people who heard vaccine and decided they were bullet proof. Even at 90% effective, if every Canadian were vaccinated with the best vaccine available, there would still be nearly 4 million Canadians at risk to break through infection. And that is before vaccine effectiveness is reduced by mutation as respiratory viruses are known to do. There are over 60 mututaions of the common season flu now hence seasonal flu vaccines must be adjusted an bossted annually. The good news is if you still get Covid after a vax, data shows the disease is less severe, and risk of both hospitalization and death is reduced.

It doesn't get us any closer to an end to the pandemic. Herd immunity now proving to be an impossible goal, . I agree that herd immunity is impossible. I have stated a number of times that this disease will be with us forever just as the Spanish flu is still here. But because our genes now carry the "memory" of the Spanish flu it is no longer the deadly disease it was before man was first exposed. I think the same thing will happen with Covid once every person has been exposed to the disease through either contraction or vaccine that that mimics the disease in the body.

Finally, re lockdowns - mandates. From day one I have said the purpose of any and all actions taken by governements has been to protect the health care systems. And that continues to be the case. As long as there is a significant portion of the population who have never had any exposure to the disease, there will be a threat to the health care system. If even just 15% of Canadians have not had the disease and refuse the vax, at 4% hospitalization rates that still means the health care system must expect about a quarter million potentially requiring extended ICU care someday. That is an overwhelming number.