Making ethanol from corn is the least efficient use of farmland

[chuckChuck]

Ethanol subsidies and mandates have been a big fat subsidy to agriculture in the US and a very ineffective climate change policy to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

But conservative "free market" farmers have their hands out and don't want them to end.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

I'm sure that knowing the carbon footprint of the solar panels and wind turbines will be reassuring to the citizens of europe, specifically Germany when the oil and gas from Russia gets cut off and they get to live with whatever energy they can get from their renewables. In fact, the pleasant thought of saving the world from plant food maybe the only thing that keeps them warm at this rate.

[Guest]

I don't understand your arguments here Chuck?
Why would these companies build all these plants if it wasn't the right thing to do?
Would Scott Moe or Jason Kenny approve them if they wern't good for everyone.
Fuel from food crops is good for the environment.
California is going to have most Fosil Fuels eliminated buy 2030.
They can't be wrong. It's all been studied or they wouldn't be doing it.

Those 2030 and 2050 targets must be met or we all melt.
We all have to do our part.
You shouldn't be questioning the mandates.
They have been approved.

Don't be trying to make logical arguments. Your not an environmental scientist.

yes chucky , believe the science, you can't have it both ways

[seldomseen]

Dont need to. You can put them on roofs and marginal land. But the point of this article is that from an energy point of view ethanol is not a good choice and solar panels are a much better choice. Plus some types of agriculture can be integrated with solar panels.

Not sure that roof idea is the best Chuck

[shtferbrains]

Think about a commercially viable solar installation of say 800 acres with rows of panels spaced like they are down on the desert in the US.
Only here replacing our gas fired plants.

Where would all that snow go?
Maintenance cost might be some higher than on the desert.

They have large plants covering 20,000 acres there.

[LWeber]

Ethanol subsidies and mandates have been a big fat subsidy to agriculture in the US and a very ineffective climate change policy to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

But conservative "free market" farmers have their hands out and don't want them to end.

you ghost writing for DQ?

[chuckChuck]

Not sure that roof idea is the best Chuck

Mine are ground mounted and fairly easy to clean. Snow is certainly an issue, but in much of the southern prairies its not as much of an issue as you would think. Mine are clean of snow 95% of the year.

In the warmer latitudes, it's no issue at all.

Roof mounted solar panels still provide an opportunity to generate significant electricity across the prairies.

Solar systems allow owners to generate a lot of their own electricity. In our case we generated more in 2021 than we used. All carbon tax free. You can store it in an EV battery.

Unlike plants in temperate northern latitudes, solar can collect the suns energy 365 days a year if the sun is shining, It works best in sunny dry climates. And the southern prairies is an ideal place for solar PV.

Compared to ethanol from corn, solar is a much more efficient energy producer.

[Hamloc]

Mine are ground mounted and fairly easy to clean. Snow is certainly an issue, but in much of the southern prairies its not as much of an issue as you would think. Mine are clean of snow 95% of the year.

In the warmer latitudes, it's no issue at all.

Roof mounted solar panels still provide an opportunity to generate significant electricity across the prairies.

Solar systems allow owners to generate a lot of their own electricity. In our case we generated more in 2021 than we used. All carbon tax free. You can store it in an EV battery.

Unlike plants in temperate northern latitudes, solar can collect the suns energy 365 days a year if the sun is shining, It works best in sunny dry climates. And the southern prairies is an ideal place for solar PV.

Compared to ethanol from corn, solar is a much more efficient energy producer.

Chuck2 let’s for a moment imagine if they shut down all the ethanol plants. Now we have a demand issue for corn. Certainly the feed market that was being supplied by distillers grain offers some demand. How much does this decrease the price of corn? At the same time there will be an increase in the demand for gasoline to replace the ethanol. So what happens? Increased energy costs? Will U.S. grain farmers receive more government support? In your scenario who really benefits China?

[chuckChuck]

Chuck2 let’s for a moment imagine if they shut down all the ethanol plants. Now we have a demand issue for corn. Certainly the feed market that was being supplied by distillers grain offers some demand. How much does this decrease the price of corn? At the same time there will be an increase in the demand for gasoline to replace the ethanol. So what happens? Increased energy costs? Will U.S. grain farmers receive more government support? In your scenario who really benefits China?

I am not suggesting that. But lets not ignore the reality that biofuels are a poor energy option. From an energy efficiency point of view solar wins easily.

But if you are going to complain about subsidies to solar pv then you have acknowledge the subsidies to farmers and biofuels.

If the US put a priority on building solar and other renewable energy systems instead of bio-fuels it may be a better investment. Certainly all the equipment can be manufactured in the US so there could be a lot of jobs created.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Mine are ground mounted and fairly easy to clean. Snow is certainly an issue, but in much of the southern prairies its not as much of an issue as you would think. Mine are clean of snow 95% of the year.

In the warmer latitudes, it's no issue at all.

Roof mounted solar panels still provide an opportunity to generate significant electricity across the prairies.

Solar systems allow owners to generate a lot of their own electricity. In our case we generated more in 2021 than we used. All carbon tax free. You can store it in an EV battery.

Unlike plants in temperate northern latitudes, solar can collect the suns energy 365 days a year if the sun is shining, It works best in sunny dry climates. And the southern prairies is an ideal place for solar PV.

Compared to ethanol from corn, solar is a much more efficient energy producer.

Do you ever retain anything from our conversations?

The resident electric car guru, AB4, already told you that storing intermittent electricity in an EV is a terrible idea, so you repeat it again and again. I pointed out the horrific economics of storage using EV's, so you repeat it repeatedly.

What percentage of homes or businesses in Canada are rural and have the option of ground mounting, such as yours? Do you see ground mount as a good option in cities, just so the snow can be cleaned off?