Making ethanol from corn is the least efficient use of farmland

[chuckChuck]

Ethanol subsidies and mandates have been a big fat subsidy to agriculture in the US and a very ineffective climate change policy to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

But conservative "free market" farmers have their hands out and don't want them to end.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

I'm sure that knowing the carbon footprint of the solar panels and wind turbines will be reassuring to the citizens of europe, specifically Germany when the oil and gas from Russia gets cut off and they get to live with whatever energy they can get from their renewables. In fact, the pleasant thought of saving the world from plant food maybe the only thing that keeps them warm at this rate.

[Guest]

I don't understand your arguments here Chuck?
Why would these companies build all these plants if it wasn't the right thing to do?
Would Scott Moe or Jason Kenny approve them if they wern't good for everyone.
Fuel from food crops is good for the environment.
California is going to have most Fosil Fuels eliminated buy 2030.
They can't be wrong. It's all been studied or they wouldn't be doing it.

Those 2030 and 2050 targets must be met or we all melt.
We all have to do our part.
You shouldn't be questioning the mandates.
They have been approved.

Don't be trying to make logical arguments. Your not an environmental scientist.

yes chucky , believe the science, you can't have it both ways

[seldomseen]

Dont need to. You can put them on roofs and marginal land. But the point of this article is that from an energy point of view ethanol is not a good choice and solar panels are a much better choice. Plus some types of agriculture can be integrated with solar panels.

Not sure that roof idea is the best Chuck

[shtferbrains]

Think about a commercially viable solar installation of say 800 acres with rows of panels spaced like they are down on the desert in the US.
Only here replacing our gas fired plants.

Where would all that snow go?
Maintenance cost might be some higher than on the desert.

They have large plants covering 20,000 acres there.

[LWeber]

Ethanol subsidies and mandates have been a big fat subsidy to agriculture in the US and a very ineffective climate change policy to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

But conservative "free market" farmers have their hands out and don't want them to end.

you ghost writing for DQ?

[chuckChuck]

Not sure that roof idea is the best Chuck

Mine are ground mounted and fairly easy to clean. Snow is certainly an issue, but in much of the southern prairies its not as much of an issue as you would think. Mine are clean of snow 95% of the year.

In the warmer latitudes, it's no issue at all.

Roof mounted solar panels still provide an opportunity to generate significant electricity across the prairies.

Solar systems allow owners to generate a lot of their own electricity. In our case we generated more in 2021 than we used. All carbon tax free. You can store it in an EV battery.

Unlike plants in temperate northern latitudes, solar can collect the suns energy 365 days a year if the sun is shining, It works best in sunny dry climates. And the southern prairies is an ideal place for solar PV.

Compared to ethanol from corn, solar is a much more efficient energy producer.

[Hamloc]

Mine are ground mounted and fairly easy to clean. Snow is certainly an issue, but in much of the southern prairies its not as much of an issue as you would think. Mine are clean of snow 95% of the year.

In the warmer latitudes, it's no issue at all.

Roof mounted solar panels still provide an opportunity to generate significant electricity across the prairies.

Solar systems allow owners to generate a lot of their own electricity. In our case we generated more in 2021 than we used. All carbon tax free. You can store it in an EV battery.

Unlike plants in temperate northern latitudes, solar can collect the suns energy 365 days a year if the sun is shining, It works best in sunny dry climates. And the southern prairies is an ideal place for solar PV.

Compared to ethanol from corn, solar is a much more efficient energy producer.

Chuck2 let’s for a moment imagine if they shut down all the ethanol plants. Now we have a demand issue for corn. Certainly the feed market that was being supplied by distillers grain offers some demand. How much does this decrease the price of corn? At the same time there will be an increase in the demand for gasoline to replace the ethanol. So what happens? Increased energy costs? Will U.S. grain farmers receive more government support? In your scenario who really benefits China?

[chuckChuck]

Chuck2 let’s for a moment imagine if they shut down all the ethanol plants. Now we have a demand issue for corn. Certainly the feed market that was being supplied by distillers grain offers some demand. How much does this decrease the price of corn? At the same time there will be an increase in the demand for gasoline to replace the ethanol. So what happens? Increased energy costs? Will U.S. grain farmers receive more government support? In your scenario who really benefits China?

I am not suggesting that. But lets not ignore the reality that biofuels are a poor energy option. From an energy efficiency point of view solar wins easily.

But if you are going to complain about subsidies to solar pv then you have acknowledge the subsidies to farmers and biofuels.

If the US put a priority on building solar and other renewable energy systems instead of bio-fuels it may be a better investment. Certainly all the equipment can be manufactured in the US so there could be a lot of jobs created.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Mine are ground mounted and fairly easy to clean. Snow is certainly an issue, but in much of the southern prairies its not as much of an issue as you would think. Mine are clean of snow 95% of the year.

In the warmer latitudes, it's no issue at all.

Roof mounted solar panels still provide an opportunity to generate significant electricity across the prairies.

Solar systems allow owners to generate a lot of their own electricity. In our case we generated more in 2021 than we used. All carbon tax free. You can store it in an EV battery.

Unlike plants in temperate northern latitudes, solar can collect the suns energy 365 days a year if the sun is shining, It works best in sunny dry climates. And the southern prairies is an ideal place for solar PV.

Compared to ethanol from corn, solar is a much more efficient energy producer.

Do you ever retain anything from our conversations?

The resident electric car guru, AB4, already told you that storing intermittent electricity in an EV is a terrible idea, so you repeat it again and again. I pointed out the horrific economics of storage using EV's, so you repeat it repeatedly.

What percentage of homes or businesses in Canada are rural and have the option of ground mounting, such as yours? Do you see ground mount as a good option in cities, just so the snow can be cleaned off?

[chuckChuck]

Do you ever retain anything from our conversations?

The resident electric car guru, AB4, already told you that storing intermittent electricity in an EV is a terrible idea, so you repeat it again and again. I pointed out the horrific economics of storage using EV's, so you repeat it repeatedly.

What percentage of homes or businesses in Canada are rural and have the option of ground mounting, such as yours? Do you see ground mount as a good option in cities, just so the snow can be cleaned off?

Lots of flat roofs in the city and snow can be cleaned off.

Roof mounts will also produce a lot of electricity even in winter depending on the location.

I calculated my long term solar PV electricity is worth about 8-10 cents per kwh. We currently are paying 14 cents to Sask power. And rates are rising. So the economics of solar pv is pretty good at those numbers.

The cost of EV batteries is coming down and quality is going up. They expect price parity with ICE cars in a few years.

An EV owner recently said they are paying the equivalent of 30 cents per litre for energy costs in Saskatchewan. That still wont pay for the extra cost of an EV, but within a few years it will be cheaper to own and operate an EV vehicle and I will still be paying only 8-10 cents per kwh.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

So battery costs are going down? Exactly where do you get your news from Chuck, 2020?
Have you opened a newspaper or read the internet since then? EVs and battery costs are going up and forecast to go up even worse due to material shortages and supply chain issues and labor costs.

No commercial breakthrough and technology that would lower costs as if today.
Unless of course you have an EV with a solid state battery that is performing as promised, as you have been hyping for a few years.

[Hamloc]

Lots of flat roofs in the city and snow can be cleaned off.

Roof mounts will also produce a lot of electricity even in winter depending on the location.

I calculated my long term solar PV electricity is worth about 8-10 cents per kwh. We currently are paying 14 cents to Sask power. And rates are rising. So the economics of solar pv is pretty good at those numbers.

The cost of EV batteries is coming down and quality is going up. They expect price parity with ICE cars in a few years.

An EV owner recently said they are paying the equivalent of 30 cents per litre for energy costs in Saskatchewan. That still wont pay for the extra cost of an EV, but within a few years it will be cheaper to own and operate an EV vehicle and I will still be paying only 8-10 cents per kwh.

Very interesting Chuck2. Either last year or the year before that I asked you the cost of your solar system per installed watt and you said you didn’t know, that you would have to look it up. Now you know what it costs you per kwh of generated electricity. Does that mean you now know the cost of the system now or you are just estimating your generation costs?

As for using an EV to store electricity. That would certainly then provide you with self generated electricity 24 hrs. a day. But when you factor in the cost of that storage what is then the cost of your electricity? If you use your car for electricity overnight then it won’t be available for transportation the next day, do you then buy a second car? So is it a storage battery or transportation, realistically it can only be used for one purpose on a daily basis. Lots of questions look forward to your answers.

[chuckChuck]

So battery costs are going down? Exactly where do you get your news from Chuck, 2020?
Have you opened a newspaper or read the internet since then? EVs and battery costs are going up and forecast to go up even worse due to material shortages and supply chain issues and labor costs.

No commercial breakthrough and technology that would lower costs as if today.
Unless of course you have an EV with a solid state battery that is performing as promised, as you have been hyping for a few years.

For sure there are supply issues and shortages now but the forecast is for lower costs and newer improved battery technology and price parity with ICE cars as the industry gears up and makes many more units. But I guess conservatives like you think everything stays the same for ever?

Are you still using your first cell phone there A5? How are the features and battery life on your latest phone vs your first cell phone?

[chuckChuck]

Very interesting Chuck2. Either last year or the year before that I asked you the cost of your solar system per installed watt and you said you didn’t know, that you would have to look it up. Now you know what it costs you per kwh of generated electricity. Does that mean you now know the cost of the system now or you are just estimating your generation costs?

As for using an EV to store electricity. That would certainly then provide you with self generated electricity 24 hrs. a day. But when you factor in the cost of that storage what is then the cost of your electricity? If you use your car for electricity overnight then it won’t be available for transportation the next day, do you then buy a second car? So is it a storage battery or transportation, realistically it can only be used for one purpose on a daily basis. Lots of questions look forward to your answers.

You must have forgot because I have been quoting 8-10 cents per kwh since I first posted about my solar panels.

Of course if I have to replace an inverter or panels that fail that might drive the cost up. But the life span of panels is 25 + years and inverters I am not sure.

Storing solar electricity in an EV and driving it is still storage on wheels. Most EVs will not be used to power homes overnight although the F150 extended range will certainly provide emergency backup.

Most drivers make very short commuter trips well suited to EVs.

Intermittent renewables in Alberta are already charging up EVs by providing a portion of the grids electricity. It is certainly possible to install solar PV on a farm and charge what ever you want. As I said we produced more solar electricity that we used in 2021 and could easily charge an EV with a lot of solar at 8-10 cents per kwh.