Electric vehicles

[Landdownunder]

Looking at pros and cons of electric small car.

Interesting at moment they just cannot make enough quality batteries.

Cost of powering up has doubled in last 8 months but so has diesel and gas.

Kicker here in oz if say 150,000 new electric cars hit the market and powered up each night takes 12 to 30 minutes the power grid couldn’t handle it.

Home power systems coulndnt handle it would drain household battery storage.

Sure technology will over comebit in 10 yrs.

[furrowtickler]

That exactly what’s going to happen everywhere
There is no way the grid will take it

[Guest]

mustn't say that furrow , FFS

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Just a week after California state regulators voted to ban the sale of gas-powered vehicles by 2035, the state told residents not to charge their electric vehicles during peak hours on Wednesday, and indicated the restrictions could continue through Labor Day weekend

https://thenationaldesk.com/news/americas-news-now/california-restricts-ev-charging-a-week-after-passing-future-ban-on-gas-powered-vehicles

sounds like they planned this one through and made sure the infrastructure was up the task before outlawing gasoline vehicles.

[furrowtickler]

Cart way way before the horse ….

Anyone who never seen this coming is completely tone deaf

[Guest]

or just plain stupid

[Landdownunder]

Yeah agree things ain’t quite working out yet.

Not in any hurry yet.

But I liken it to Milwaukee tools. We all had air operated tools, electric came along these things will never work now 15 yrs down the track the mega Milwaukee tools break your darn wrist if ya not holding tight.

Lad of course who’s a rum drinking rev head, ain’t going electric unless ya can smoke the tyres up….
PS he pays for his own tyres he will grow out of it.

Ps I’m not a rabid bone headed climate change sex changed woke type of guy by the way…

Sad but the third world countries and those who can least afford have most to lose long term but affluent countries will help em out I guess.

Another pull back here is most EV vehicles coming into Australia are Chinese a lot haven’t forgotten our stoush with Chinese govt and won’t buy Chinese.

Can of worms

[furrowtickler]

Agree , just not there yet .
Electric tools are awesome
Someday EV’s will be too
Tech changes fast so when it does then push the EV’s .
But still not before the grid can handle it , of the EV manufactures give a home solar charger with each EV .
Of course that still useless in winter in Canada , Norway , Finland , Sweden , Russia … just to name a few .
I said before I would consider an EV truck , I like the idea of no fuel , oil , antifreeze and all the headaches with ICE vehicles.
Will see how California , New York and others make out . They are banning new ICE car sales
Their power grids will collapse most likely

[chuckChuck]

Yeah agree things ain’t quite working out yet.

Not in any hurry yet.

But I liken it to Milwaukee tools. We all had air operated tools, electric came along these things will never work now 15 yrs down the track the mega Milwaukee tools break your darn wrist if ya not holding tight.

Lad of course who’s a rum drinking rev head, ain’t going electric unless ya can smoke the tyres up….
PS he pays for his own tyres he will grow out of it.

Ps I’m not a rabid bone headed climate change sex changed woke type of guy by the way…

Sad but the third world countries and those who can least afford have most to lose long term but affluent countries will help em out I guess.

Another pull back here is most EV vehicles coming into Australia are Chinese a lot haven’t forgotten our stoush with Chinese govt and won’t buy Chinese.

Can of worms

In much of the developing world lower cost renewables can deliver some energy independence.

If you can get massive amounts of wind and solar in some countries at a lower cost than fossil fuels why would you build dependency only on fossil fuels?

This transition will take time just like the transition from human and animal power to coal and then gas and diesel. It didn't happen overnight and there were many improvements along the way.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

In much of the developing world lower cost renewables can deliver some energy independence.

If you can get massive amounts of wind and solar in some countries at a lower cost than fossil fuels why would you build dependency only on fossil fuels?

Chuck, you are doing it again. Spreading misinformation. Even outright fake news in this case.

Is this the same lower cost renewable energy that Germany and California and Australia have been enjoying in recent years?

You have never been able to find even a single example of renewables actually resulting in lower costs to the consumers. Yet you continue to refer to renewables as lower cost.

Edit: And to be fair, in the developing world, without a history of reliable grid electricity, if there had been no prior expectation of 24/7 electricity, then the citizens may be satisfied with intermittent solar and wind as a vast improvement over no electricity. You can always charge your phone, pump water, prepare some food, grind some feed, maybe cool off a fridge/freezer, use the internet when the sun is shining, or wind is blowing. But if it isn't backed up 100% with fossil fuel generation, then there is no chance of developing any industry. Can't run an aluminum smelter or assembly line on intermittent electricity that functions on the whims of the weather.

And, if there is no need to back up the intermittents with 100% reliable generation, then it actually would be cheaper. Just not very useful for an industrial civilization.

Further edit, I see Blackpowder acknowledged the same thing while I was editing.

[blackpowder]

Notice he's right when he said "some"

[biglentil]

What a joke.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

What a joke.

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While there are a lot of reasons why electric vehicles aren't the panacea they are cracked up to be, I don't think the cost of battery replacement is one that will stop the average consumer. After all, we have been buying cordless tools for decades knowing full well that when the batteries die of old age, we will discard the tool and buy a new one because new batteries cost more than the tool did to start with. This is more a function of the throwaway society we live in, than it is a factor against electric vehicle adoption.

And as with most things in life, the original purchaser could care less about repair and maintenance costs 10 years down the road, and the manufacturer isn't at all concerned about the consumer buying the used product 10 years from now.
Of course, if any of this was actually about saving the environment, then throw away vehicles with non-recyclable batteries would matter. The fact that they don't, tells us all we need to know about the motivations of this movement.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

And as usual, Chuck makes some ridiculous unfounded claims. And when called out on it, goes silent on the topic. But apparently still has time to rant and rave and name call and insult and LOL on every other active thread.
You would almost begin to suspect that he doesn't actually have any evidence of renewable energy not resulting in far higher costs.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Here is an interesting article about the coming shortage of sulfur. I've brought this up before, many in the energy industry have been warning about this for years. And the most ironic part, is that demand for sulfuric acid will go up substantially for the batteries and processing of ores for the supposed renewable revolution, at the same time that supply will be dropping if these technologies do succeed in replacing fossil fuels.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/amp/sulfuric-acid-shortage-2658114125

Could it get to the point where we go purposely drilling for sour gas or sour oil just to extract the sulfur, then flare off the hydrocarbons as a byproduct? With the added bonus of maintaining our slightly elevated CO2 levels.