Soverignty Acts

[tweety]

There are no independent senators. Everybody knows that.

And the carbon tax isn’t constitutional either as Quebec just got a break on theirs yesterday so unequal taxation violates the document.

Just admit you are a Marxist. At least that we can understand. We have a couple of them on this site.

Prove that it isn't constitutional.

[jazz]

Prove that it isn't constitutional.

SO mask off moment eh. If unfairness is enshrined in the constitution, like the senate and equalization clearly are, then its all good.

You just went ahead and justified the Alberta Sovereignty Act. Thank you.

[tweety]

SO mask off moment eh. If unfairness is enshrined in the constitution, like the senate and equalization clearly are, then its all good.

You just went ahead and justified the Alberta Sovereignty Act. Thank you.

Prove it isn't constitutional. Your post is meaningless without actual proof. Like most of them

Prove reduction of carbon emission costs for Quebec to be less are not constitutional.

[blackpowder]

The gorilla in the room is representation by area or region.
Sooner or later it's mentioned and the conversation ends.
It won't easily be changed ever.
So the hypothetical debate is, do you see a problem.
The supporters of status quo do not.
Majority rule is balanced enough with Senate as is. City states eventually becoming the ruling class.
Something the designers of the Westminster system didn't envision. They lived on a small island nation with subservient colonies to rule.
That mindset of subservience to a distant power to me explains a lot about our culture and system today.
I myself do see a problem. But I know it will never be addressed. And I recognize that the majority of the population have no problems with it either.
I would rather be governed by peers than distant experts on my life. So I support any jurisdictional attempt to remind Ottawa of their place as our citizen law makers not our rulers.
Thought about that way, I congratulate Quebec. And request the same for the West.

[tweety]

The gorilla in the room is representation by area or region.
Sooner or later it's mentioned and the conversation ends.
It won't easily be changed ever.
So the hypothetical debate is, do you see a problem.
The supporters of status quo do not.
Majority rule is balanced enough with Senate as is. City states eventually becoming the ruling class.
Something the designers of the Westminster system didn't envision. They lived on a small island nation with subservient colonies to rule.
That mindset of subservience to a distant power to me explains a lot about our culture and system today.
I myself do see a problem. But I know it will never be addressed. And I recognize that the majority of the population have no problems with it either.
I would rather be governed by peers than distant experts on my life. So I support any jurisdictional attempt to remind Ottawa of their place as our citizen law makers not our rulers.
Thought about that way, I congratulate Quebec. And request the same for the West.

But isn't that the fundamental problem of a large Federation? No one feels fully represented - even though in the true spirit of democracy - they are. You can bet people living in parts of Ontario feel they aren't represented either.

[tweety]

The gorilla in the room is representation by area or region.
Sooner or later it's mentioned and the conversation ends.
It won't easily be changed ever.
So the hypothetical debate is, do you see a problem.
The supporters of status quo do not.
Majority rule is balanced enough with Senate as is. City states eventually becoming the ruling class.
Something the designers of the Westminster system didn't envision. They lived on a small island nation with subservient colonies to rule.
That mindset of subservience to a distant power to me explains a lot about our culture and system today.
I myself do see a problem. But I know it will never be addressed. And I recognize that the majority of the population have no problems with it either.
I would rather be governed by peers than distant experts on my life. So I support any jurisdictional attempt to remind Ottawa of their place as our citizen law makers not our rulers.
Thought about that way, I congratulate Quebec. And request the same for the West.

I struggle with the comment of ruler vs lawmaker. Right now we have a large representation of Liberal and NDP MP's together making the decisions. Fair enough, they were democratically elected. If the Liberals want to do anything, they can't. They need the support of others. Isn't this seemingly the best democracy can get?

How do you feel ruled?

I am sure many in Alberta are feeling they are ruled now.

[blackpowder]

Agreed.
However the 2 senators from North Dakota have the same number of votes as the 2 senators from California.

[tweety]

Agreed.
However the 2 senators from North Dakota have the same number of votes as the 2 senators from California.

No argument from me on that one. But surprisingly the Senate is actually working pretty good since the talk of abolish the Senate. They used to rehash the same parliamentary arguments all over on bills, but that has changed. I know many, they are good people that love their country. Like Parliament, 80% of them are there for the right reason.

There has been more amendments lately, but not ping pong of bills. Huge changes since 2015. No patronage assignments. There no longer is big groups in party caucus, so even the admin have had to do far more technical briefing, the MP's need to do their job talking to many more, and the Office of the Government Representative in the Senate is doing a great job guiding the whole process in a timely fashion. It needs to change some more - like representation by population as the MP structure - but it is much much better.

[blackpowder]

I tossed the lawmaker vs ruler in for effect. I do not know what the policymakers in Ottawa have in their minds as intention.
But I can tell you what their actions look like to some.
Governing has become generational for some in democracies. Our Commonwealth history has no occasional reset. Churchill viewed Canada as a colony of the Crown with all that view suggests. Which we were.
Perhaps we lack a mechanism that can remind Ottawa of its place as our entire nation's government not it's benevolent ruler.
Govts need power but the seat and intent needs reminding. Power is addictive. Complacency is perilous.

[tweety]

I tossed the lawmaker vs ruler in for effect. I do not know what the policymakers in Ottawa have in their minds as intention.
But I can tell you what their actions look like to some.
Governing has become generational for some in democracies. Our Commonwealth history has no occasional reset. Churchill viewed Canada as a colony of the Crown with all that view suggests. Which we were.
Perhaps we lack a mechanism that can remind Ottawa of its place as our entire nation's government not it's benevolent ruler.
Govts need power but the seat and intent needs reminding. Power is addictive. Complacency is perilous.

I agree 98%

I think given the complexity of overlap of fed/prov lawmaking and interpretation, The line wiggles back and forth between Power and Complacency over time by election results.

Think of the people that thought PM Harper was the worst dictator of all ruling his party with terror and iron fist.

[blackpowder]

It is certainly a human flaw in politics that people will tend to say anything to gain popularity.
Perhaps life term appointed Senators the check for that. Or like someone who quit farming 10 years ago being tragically out of touch, do they still understand the governed and their issues? Should they be residents of the various jurisdictions on an equal basis?

[blackpowder]

I struggle with the comment of ruler vs lawmaker. Right now we have a large representation of Liberal and NDP MP's together making the decisions. Fair enough, they were democratically elected. If the Liberals want to do anything, they can't. They need the support of others. Isn't this seemingly the best democracy can get?

How do you feel ruled?

I am sure many in Alberta are feeling they are ruled now.

It holds no weight for me where you have lived or live. I enjoy our discussion.
Where I have lived my entire life, and in the entire region, the federal Liberals and NDP have never sent MPs to Ottawa. I can tell you what that results in after 3 generations.