Has Solar and Wind generation reduced electricity costs in Alberta?

[Hamloc]

Chuck2 is always promoting how Wind and Solar are the least expensive way to add capacity to increase electrical generation capacity. So I looked at the price of electricity over the last year in Alberta and how much if any wind and solar generation had been added to the grid.
December 2021 Alberta had 2269 megawatts of wind generation capacity, December 2022 Alberta has 3618 megawatts of wind generation capacity, so an increase of 59% over the last year.
December 2021 Alberta had 336 megawatts of solar generation capacity, December 2022 Alberta has 1138 megawatts of solar generation capacity, so an increase of 338% over the last year.
From an article by Adam Toy, Global News, December 23, 2022 titled”Albertan’s to get some protection from rising electricity rates.”
December prices for the Regulated Rate Option from Enmax, Epcor and Direct Energy ranged from 22 to 24.5 cents a kwh. This price is expected to rise another 5 cents a kwh in January. In January of 2022 those prices hovered around 16 cents a kwh.
The Regulated Rate option is a fluctuating rate which more accurately reflects up to date market conditions. Personally I am on a fixed rate 5 year contract through Enmax at a much lower rate. At present government mandated de carbonization has not moderated electricity prices. Increasing carbon taxes, the legislated shut down of coal generating facilities and the large increase in solar and wind generation has done nothing to make electricity cheaper, in fact just the opposite.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

And it appears that the price of Alberta natural gas is almost exactly the same level today as it was one year ago. And that is still the dominant source of electricity generation in alberta. So this is an excellent comparison with all things being equal except for the percentage of solar and wind generation.

[chuckChuck]

Good question.

To answer it you need the AESO to look at the very complex deregulated system and all the increasing costs in the system. Because generation is only a portion of the system costs.

So what was the additional costs of the shutdown of coal plants and transition to gas?

We already know you are going to blame all the additional costs on solar and wind facilities even without any credible and independent analysis and evidence.

But you can't change the fact that solar and wind are some of the lowest cost new sources of electricity generation in many parts of the world. So says Bloomberg and the IEA.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Good question.

To answer it you need the AESO to look at the very complex deregulated system and all the increasing costs in the system. Because generation is only a portion of the system costs.

So what was the additional costs of the shutdown of coal plants and transition to gas?

We already know you are going to blame all the additional costs on solar and wind facilities even without any credible and independent analysis and evidence.

But you can't change the fact that solar and wind are some of the lowest cost new sources of electricity generation in many parts of the world. So says Bloomberg and the IEA.

Chuck, do you remember a few days ago when you finally acknowledged that there's a difference between actual generation and capacity?
Well, you have regressed to once again confusing the two. This reminds me a lot of the struggle I had trying to convince you that science isn't something that requires belief. It went on for years as you kept regressing back to using that irrational statement over and over and over again.

[chuckChuck]

But you don't know what are all the causes of rising electricity costs in Alberta? LOL

The costs of solar and wind calculated by Bloomberg and the IEA are based not on capacity but actual generation.

So the fact that solar actually only produces about 15% of its installed capacity in Alberta is taken into account.

In other sunnier drier locations around the world the actual generation will be higher.

[Hamloc]

Good question.

To answer it you need the AESO to look at the very complex deregulated system and all the increasing costs in the system. Because generation is only a portion of the system costs.

So what was the additional costs of the shutdown of coal plants and transition to gas?

We already know you are going to blame all the additional costs on solar and wind facilities even without any credible and independent analysis and evidence.

But you can't change the fact that solar and wind are some of the lowest cost new sources of electricity generation in many parts of the world. So says Bloomberg and the IEA.

Chuck2 some of the increased costs are related to forced de-carbonization or in Alberta’s case a forced shutdown or conversion of coal fired plants. As you point out electrical generators had to be compensated for shutting down coal plants long before they were intended. The newest ones were originally forecast to be used until 2060. I believe there is a charge added to our monthly bill(well hidden) that goes to reimburse the companies for this cost.

The carbon tax certainly plays a role with 70-80% of our electricity coming from natural gas there is no doubt a carbon tax applied to the natural gas. This will increase over time, to some extent locking in more expensive electrical generation costs.

In our last cold snap the limitations of wind and solar were clearly demonstrated. A quote from Capital power CEO Brian Vaasjo:”Looking at the mix of what’s generating electricity in the province this week, one can clearly see the critical role of gas. There’s very little wind and solar is limited during the day and obviously none at night. It demonstrates renewables create significant levels of energy when nature is working with you, but it isn’t dispatchable — it is not reliable.” Pretty well sums it up.

[cropgrower]

yes just a fair weather friend , abandons you when you need them most !

[Guest]

Chuck2 some of the increased costs are related to forced de-carbonization or in Alberta’s case a forced shutdown or conversion of coal fired plants. As you point out electrical generators had to be compensated for shutting down coal plants long before they were intended. The newest ones were originally forecast to be used until 2060. I believe there is a charge added to our monthly bill(well hidden) that goes to reimburse the companies for this cost.

The carbon tax certainly plays a role with 70-80% of our electricity coming from natural gas there is no doubt a carbon tax applied to the natural gas. This will increase over time, to some extent locking in more expensive electrical generation costs.

In our last cold snap the limitations of wind and solar were clearly demonstrated. A quote from Capital power CEO Brian Vaasjo:”Looking at the mix of what’s generating electricity in the province this week, one can clearly see the critical role of gas. There’s very little wind and solar is limited during the day and obviously none at night. It demonstrates renewables create significant levels of energy when nature is working with you, but it isn’t dispatchable — it is not reliable.” Pretty well sums it up.

He will call you “hammy” soon and hit you with an lol

[TOM4CWB]

I find it interesting that because 40% of the cost of our farms electricity is transmission line charges… and service charges, going ‘ off grid ‘ with solar and wind charging , as batteries cost and efficiency increases… means it will be cost effective to power our farm residence and offices off grid.

In fact with a Natural Gas Electric Generation , it may well be least cost to transition to completely off grid… if administration and transmission costs are not brought into reasonable values.

I do not plan to sell any electricity back to the grid.

It is a brave new world… for those with initiative and imagination!!!

The cost of money increasing exponentially , as has happened in the past 6 months, as with war in Ukraine; is certainly counterproductive to going to off grid electrical generation. The CO2 issue is a red herring. Nothing to do with ‘Climate Change’ … which is impossible to prove… and a scientifically unacceptable theory.

Blessings and Salutations

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Remember that time Chuck was half joking about being a Russian operative?
Well I'm sure he hasn't got a clue who's agenda he is furthering with his support of the supposed green nonsense.
But all of the facts indicate that Russia has been the largest contributor to the anti pipeline and anti fracing movements.
While the self righteous useful idiots keep parroting their anti Russian propaganda.

Hypocrisy knows no bounds.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/12/how-russia-backed-environmentalism-is-leading-to-blackouts-in-new-england/

[fjlip]

"The CO2 issue is a red herring. Nothing to do with ‘Climate Change’ … which is impossible to prove… and a scientifically unacceptable theory."

Ditto, a must like, most everything is IMPOSSIBLE to prove, it's "all believe"

[Retired]

If you all can ,or want to remember our elec system was operating fine until Ralph and co decided to deregulate(reregulate) it turned out to be and it has been in a constant state of money grubing ever since.

[chuckChuck]

If you live in "socialist" Saskatchewan the Sask Party comrades prefer lower regulated rates and more control over what the state owned utility Sask Power does.

I doubt that the private sector in Alberta or Saskatchewan would build a small nuclear reactor because they are unproven and the most expensive way to generate electricity.

But meanwhile back at the Sask Party's "socialist" headquarters, they are working hard to lay the groundwork to subsidize the hell out of one, by making taxpayers and rate payers for it and will politically interfere in the "business" decisions of Sask Power.

[Guest]

the solar dream , well chucky , it has just died, as has wind . sorry but the unwoke have awoken
germany has made it glaringly obvious
if you are still not sure ; google new coal fired generators worldwide, and get a new news feed

[shtferbrains]

As all farmers know the weather gods can be fickle.
The Germans made many sacrifices and worshiped with enthusiasm but the gods have disappointed them.
Now is back to the devil the know.
The new climate religion being questioned?