Virtual Power Plants

[Hamloc]

This headline on Reuters caught my eye this morning:”GM, Ford, Google partner to promote ‘virtual’ power plants.”

“Virtual power plants are systems for easing loads on electricity grids when supply is short. Virtual power plants pool together thousands of decentralized resources like electric vehicles or electric heaters controlled by smart thermostats. With permission from customers they use advanced software to react to electricity shortages with such techniques as switching thousands of household’s batteries, like those in EVs, from charge to discharge mode or prompting electricity-using devices, such as water heaters to back off their consumption.”

So you could wake up in the morning ready to go to work and have a cold shower and a dead battery in your car or maybe Justin Trudeau has convinced you with his subsidy programs to install an electric heat pump, your house could get a little cold as utilities control your access to electricity and at the same time shorten the useful lifespan of your EV, a brilliant new world.

[chuckChuck]

With permission from customers they use advanced software to react to electricity shortages with such techniques as switching thousands of household’s batteries, like those in EVs, from charge to discharge mode or prompting electricity-using devices, such as water heaters to back off their consumption.”

Don't worry so much Hammy, you are not going to freeze in the dark anytime soon!

Using EV batteries as a source of stored electricity for the smart grid has been discussed for a while.

Are you still using your party line or a smart phone?

[Hamloc]

With permission from customers they use advanced software to react to electricity shortages with such techniques as switching thousands of household’s batteries, like those in EVs, from charge to discharge mode or prompting electricity-using devices, such as water heaters to back off their consumption.”

Don't worry so much Hammy, you are not going to freeze in the dark anytime soon!

Using EV batteries as a source of stored electricity for the smart grid has been discussed for a while.

Are you still using your party line or a smart phone?

Your certainly correct Chuck2, I won’t freeze in the dark because I use natural gas for heat and I have a back up generator large enough to run the farm. The oxymoron here is calling it a smart grid! If I was an owner of an EV I wouldn’t let them shorten the life of my battery in my car without compensation, anybody with a brain knows regardless of the type of battery they will only charge and discharge so many times!

[checking]

China is testing space located solar power plants. There is your niche, cc.

I wouldn't be surprised if they succeeded on their 2 gigawatt array dream.

[Guest]

Your certainly correct Chuck2, I won’t freeze in the dark because I use natural gas for heat and I have a back up generator large enough to run the farm. The oxymoron here is calling it a smart grid! If I was an owner of an EV I wouldn’t let them shorten the life of my battery in my car without compensation, anybody with a brain knows regardless of the type of battery they will only charge and discharge so many times!

enough , with the details please
no place for facts in chucky's world

[chuckChuck]

Your certainly correct Chuck2, I won’t freeze in the dark because I use natural gas for heat and I have a back up generator large enough to run the farm. The oxymoron here is calling it a smart grid! If I was an owner of an EV I wouldn’t let them shorten the life of my battery in my car without compensation, anybody with a brain knows regardless of the type of battery they will only charge and discharge so many times!

So if you don't give permission to use your EV battery how would any of this be a problem? LOL

Aren't you getting ahead of yourself in your quest to think of all the things that could go wrong in the future? You are getting worried about an advanced smart grid that you will probably never experience in your lifetime.

Perhaps there will be compensation? Maybe there will better and better battery technology and that using EV batteries for a small limited amounts of grid backup really doesn't affect their longevity? Lots of unanswered questions isn't there?

You got nothing to get so worked up about do you Hammy? Change is hard for some people.

[shtferbrains]

Got to agree on that one Chuck. There are lot's of unanswered questions.
More every day.
But it's all in the modeling?

[Hamloc]

With permission from customers they use advanced software to react to electricity shortages with such techniques as switching thousands of household’s batteries, like those in EVs, from charge to discharge mode or prompting electricity-using devices, such as water heaters to back off their consumption.”

Don't worry so much Hammy, you are not going to freeze in the dark anytime soon!

Using EV batteries as a source of stored electricity for the smart grid has been discussed for a while.

Are you still using your party line or a smart phone?

Simple reality Chuck2 in my opinion using wind and solar that will require EV owners backing up the grid is like going back to a party line, nothing smart about it!!!!!!

[chuckChuck]

So in a world that wants to reduce carbon emissions and requires a whole lot of new capacity you are going to ignore the sun and wind as free fuel for a carbon free source of electricity? That's not smart.

According to Bloomberg and the IEA alot of that new capacity and generation is going to come from renewables.

Renewable ammonia and hydrogen both offer smart options for storage. EV batteries are another option for providing some backup and stability to the smart grid.

Do you run your farm with the same technology as your dad or grandparents did? Or were their a few changes along the way?

The older generation almost never embraces a rapidly changing world without some reservations. But the youth of today and tomorrow will look back and wonder what all the fuss was about. And the sooner the negative nellies of older generation step aside instead of holding back progress, the better in many cases.

[Hamloc]

So in a world that wants to reduce carbon emissions and requires a whole lot of new capacity you are going to ignore the sun and wind as free fuel for a carbon free source of electricity? That's not smart.

According to Bloomberg and the IEA alot of that new capacity and generation is going to come from renewables.

Renewable ammonia and hydrogen both offer smart options for storage. EV batteries are another option for providing some backup and stability to the smart grid.

Do you run your farm with the same technology as your dad or grandparents did? Or were their a few changes along the way?

The older generation almost never embraces a rapidly changing world without some reservations. But the youth of today and tomorrow will look back and wonder what all the fuss was about. And the sooner the negative nellies of older generation step aside instead of holding back progress, the better in many cases.

I stand by my statement Chuck2. The pressure to install wind and solar that is coming from Environmental groups and misguided governments isn’t because it is a superior or more technologically advanced method of generation. It is because it is can be put up quickly with less regulation. Governments and environmental NGOs have created this mythical deadline by which we must lower our C02 emissions or mankind is doomed, this pushes aside much more dependable technologically advanced zero emissions electrical sources like modular nuclear reactors. Solar panels have been around over 40 years, it is not new technology, the only reason they are used more now is because China builds them cheaper!!!

Simple example Chuck2. Every article I read about EV’s and how convenient they are to use and inexpensive to run talks about charging them overnight at home. The word “night” shows that the charging of the majority of EVs won’t be done by solar!🤪

[Guest]

or wind , which usually doesn't blow at night ?

[shtferbrains]

So in a world that wants to reduce carbon emissions and requires a whole lot of new capacity you are going to ignore the sun and wind as free fuel for a carbon free source of electricity? That's not smart.

According to Bloomberg and the IEA alot of that new capacity and generation is going to come from renewables.

Renewable ammonia and hydrogen both offer smart options for storage. EV batteries are another option for providing some backup and stability to the smart grid.

Do you run your farm with the same technology as your dad or grandparents did? Or were their a few changes along the way?

The older generation almost never embraces a rapidly changing world without some reservations. But the youth of today and tomorrow will look back and wonder what all the fuss was about. And the sooner the negative nellies of older generation step aside instead of holding back progress, the better in many cases.

Chuck you are being misled about where the new capacity and generation is coming from.
What you are refering to is the new builds that duplicate existing capacity in a few rich countries.
Much of the new capacity comes in the countries that require actual new capacity to produce all those cheap goods that we import.
That is coming from new coal plants.
They have to produce those product economically or they lose the buisness to a region that can do it cheaper.
China started up at least 50 huge new coal coal plants in the last 2 years.
Their economic plan includes building coal plants in all their alternate suppliers for the raw materials that they are developing as their new silk road.
The economy works basicly the same as it did for your dad or your grandparents.
If you are a high cost producer someone else will be eating your lunch.
Coal provides the most new capacity.

[furrowtickler]

My big concern is what resale value is going to be on EV’s ?
At $20-30,000 for battery replacement, used EV’s will pile up very quickly at auto wreckers when past due date happens. And if anything like solar or windmills, that looks to be at 60/75% of advertised life expectancy ?

Sure go buy an $80,000 EV , but what’s it worth in 5-7 years ? Nearly zero ? Who will buy a 5 year old EV for $40,000 that needs a $25,000 battery?
In the meantime they will have to mine massive amounts of earth for the raw materials in open pit mines that make the tar sands look like a garden
Most cobalt comes from one African country with a lot of child labour……. But that all gets completely ignored . As does the landfills piling up with windmill blades and outdated used battery’s .
They have a long long way to go to claim environmentally “clean” energy
Also this whole carbon scam is so grossly over exaggerated.

[fjlip]

Perfectly said, NONE of it makes ANY logical sense...it's a dream, cult, wishful thinking.

Not a bit of it is needed, just change for sake of change...

From an OLD guy too wise to fall for EV/green bullsh it!