The value per acre of farmland in Canada has skyrocketed by 334% since 2001

[Sheepwheat]

I guess it should stay in this section after all.

Was that in response to my post?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

More like 5 or 6 times here, and most of that in the last six years probably.

How many farmers these days ever say they have enough land? That is the biggest problem, thinking ever more size in acres, will somehow fix all that ails commodity agriculture.

Just curious, what ails commodity agriculture?
It would appear to me that profitablity is what is driving expansion in recent years.

[Sheepwheat]

Just curious, what ails commodity agriculture?
It would appear to me that profitablity is what is driving expansion in recent years.

Impossibility of youth to start up these days is the main thing. Because all that is preached is the one way to farm. It’s all western Canada is suited for is the one way to farm. If you do something different, you are laughed at as a non farmer, because it’s just a hobby to most guys. Ten acres of garlic is not farming to most guys. Even if it may be netting more than a thousand acres of grain. We need to encourage new entrants by telling them there IS A WAY outside of million dollar combines and obscene and artificial inputs.

Another thing is our soil. Canola wheat isn’t a rotation. I’d like to see the soil benefits of a two crop repeat rotation? Because of that, everything about it is artificial, and consumers aren’t always impressed by that. Nothing at all is natural in ag anymore. The soil is just a medium to hold roots.

What do fungicides do to the environment? What does clearing every acre and draining huge lakes do to water tables, to ecosystems? Most don’t even think about that. Is my shallow well going to dry up because every lake and slough gets drained to grow canola wheat? It might not, but I have the right to wonder, correct?

Finally, if commodity prices drop, how long will this supposed time of prosperity last? Is everything being bought with cash?

To my mind, there is a lot that ails commodity agriculture. I could go on for hours.

I guess it doesn’t matter. It’s childish to think outside the box.

[Sheepwheat]

Here’s an example. A neighbor kid of mine wants to farm. The parents though swear there is not enough acres to sustain both. The options? Get more land that is impossible to come by, or rent it out or sell out.

Kid wants to farm, but is told I guess buddy you can’t. Because we don’t have enough land. Poppycock!

How many parents encourage the kid to try another route of farming? Until you are out of commodity agriculture and into direct marketing, you don’t see the potential. I was there. I came from there. I had no idea how many things there are buyers for at livable prices. The old argument always goes, “Well if everyone does that, you flood the market!”. Ummm, no. I can make a living off of an eighth to a quarter of the sheep a commodity ranch would need. There is LOTS OF ROOM to do lots of things. I know guys who ship meat to Calgary , Edmonton, Winnipeg. At prices that would blow your minds. I know guys who mill their kamut and spelt and sell it for obscene prices, in specialty stores, but mainly online, all across North America. It’s unbelievable what can be done. But it always gets bashed, denied, and discouraged.

The farm kid I mentioned? Well, he won’t farm because he has no idea the sky is the limit with fewer acres. It is so frustrating to me to see.

This mindset needs changing imho if we want an actual farm community to stay on the land. Otherwise we will have four farms per RM, and we will wonder where our neighbors went in the mad scramble to get bigger and buy it all up, because that is the only agriculture that counts.

[jazz]

Sheep a farm with some built in resiliency (not too much debt, some flexibility in storage so you arent a beholden price taker, and some tight management) this business can deliver double digit returns, even 10 yrs ago.

Land didnt go up 331% on its own.

US has been planting corn soy rotation for 30 yrs.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

First of all. I really admire your business model. And respect the message you are trying to spread.
If I had to guess, this area has more quarter section farms than every other size of farm put together. A few of them are even making a living that way.
Lots of ways to think outside the box on a small scale. The best example I know of is an organic goat milk dairy on less than a quarter section of land making very good profit. In my immediate circle, we have people making a living with honey and a fish farm and countless horse operations and growing native grass seed and you pick berries and vegetables and direct marketing beef or vegetables, a guest ranch. Quite a few people have started from scratch without even a farm background.
Countless possibilities to do it different and on a different scale. In fact I would argue that much of Western Canada's climate and topography and labor market does not lend itself well to large scale intensive agriculture.

I do have a question about your operation.
Obviously it is now working well economically and fits well with your family ideals. I would agree that it's probably also the most environmentally sustainable model possible.
But my question is, would it be economically sustainable if you had to factor in the true land costs? If you were being current land values, could you also afford to be environmentally sustainable to the degree that you are aspiring to?
I know I have struggled with this concept. I know there are better ways to do it, and I know in the long run they could be more financially sustainable. But because I also have to pay for the land at at increasingly inflated values, there is no economic case in the short run where I wouldn't go bankrupt trying to do the right thing.
In fact I would take that one step further suggest that almost any operation couldn't show a profit if we acknowledge the true value of our land. At least not while simultaneously owning the latest and greatest equipment and infrastructure etc.

[Sheepwheat]

Sheep a farm with some built in resiliency (not too much debt, some flexibility in storage so you arent a beholden price taker, and some tight management) this business can deliver double digit returns, even 10 yrs ago.

Land didnt go up 331% on its own.

Believe me I know. All I’m saying, is that based on my modest land base, I shouldn’t be feasible, (I mean, eight or so repeated weather years didn’t help me out much!), so I found another way. Others can too. I mean to encourage others that there are other ways to farm. I recognize most guys on here seem to be quite wealthy and understand they simply won’t get it.

But if all my four kids wanted to farm, and our land base doesn’t grow, I and they will find ways to make it feasible for them.

[blackpowder]

More like 5 or 6 times here, and most of that in the last six years probably.

How many farmers these days ever say they have enough land? That is the biggest problem, thinking ever more size in acres, will somehow fix all that ails commodity agriculture.

In haste I took your comment as a call for the end of greed.
You are but one of 8B on this rock. Of a specie that is unchanged since emergence.

Businesses don't grow because they want to but because they must. It's an inevitable cycle.
If something is monetized it is commoditized sooner or later.
Generalizing a niche makes it no longer a niche.
Would it benefit society if more people saw the dignity in a Farm to Fork lifestyle, absolutely.
Are there opportunities, definitely.
But you can't sidestep the rules of money or the laws of human nature.
20% will produce 80% and will want that house in Palm Springs. No sheep dung in a Denali.

[jazz]

But if all my four kids wanted to farm, and our land base doesn’t grow, I and they will find ways to make it feasible for them.

Farmers are kind of loners. There are lots of farmers who could buy out restaurant chains and even a grocery or two and move themselves up the value chain, but they dont.

It takes a strong stomach to be up face to face with the consumer. Why take on that hassle when I can just buy another quarter.

Instead of buying land, I buy stocks now.

[Sheepwheat]

Hey I need to add.

Regarding economical feasibility with today’s land valuations? I dunno? I never bought any obscene priced land. I get the opportunity costs sure. Name me a farming venture that actually pays for the land on its own. Meaning if you bought a single quarter, and used it’s own production only to pay its way. I’m not certain many forms of agriculture would be able to do it right now. Our model on a per acre basis is better than grain. As we grow our flock, our markets will hopefully follow. So far so good that way.

I am NOT condoning every farm switch what they are doing and doing well! Not at all or even close. I am talking about giving new entrants a chance. Someone still needs to grow the wheat, the canola, the beef commodities.

This is about giving new entrants a fighting chance to succeed. Maybe renting them a pita corner of a quarter across the creek where they can work on growing something non traditional. Letting them fence a chunk of bush rather than just push it down. Being actually open to having someone graze your grain land, rather than panic about it.

I think it the only hope for the future, unless all we want is a few guys on the land. What farmer wants fewer neighbors? What farmer hopes for fewer yard lights out there? I would argue none. We need more farmers not fewer. What other options are there to do this? I would argue the only feasible option is to give newcomers a chance to farm differently.

[blackpowder]

That's the problem with ideals. They can be naive.

I do occasionally see an elder give a younger a chance. My one neighbor has been more than kind to me. Others get their check flipped in the casket.
Myself, I'm giving an outside younger an excellent opportunity. He will however, always keep his day job.
All part of that human factor. We all change our minds when we change from tenant to landlord.

[checking]

Have you been to a grocery store lately checking. The last time we went the people ahead of us had the bottom part of the cart filled with cans of coke and the top with doritos.

Wont be hard to slip some cricket powder in for the masses. Just turn on the football game and pour a pint and they will accept anything.

Meanwhile we are riding the land and input escalator. Land has held up with a yr of 6 pct interest rates. Iowa land values would say we have a ways to go here yet.

Then perhaps you could explain why you are not out of the farming business now, and instead writing best selling and essential cricket powder recipes?