For all you EV Promoters

[blackpowder]

The NA manufacturers have stopped making sedans. Poor margin, low demand.

[Guest]

I don't seem to recall the bag phones having a battery. Perhaps there was a portable model and one meant to be left in the car? All the ones I remember using took power from the vehicle.
And don't use it unless it's an emergency because airtime was very expensive.

Nope ,they’re was a battery model also
“JJ6-5546” registered in Edmonton , remember it well ,lol
Fight for your place at the operator
And then there was the infamous call overheard by many when a fella phoned his wife to inform her that he wasn’t getting days off again
She replied “well there is going to be some ****ing going on here this weekend , if you wanna be in on it , you better be here”

[AlbertaFarmer5]

The NA manufacturers have stopped making sedans. Poor margin, low demand.

There go those pesky consumers voting with their wallets again.
Completely unacceptable. In the next 5-year plan we must build only the type of cars the consumer does not want to buy.

[blackpowder]

Nope ,they’re was a battery model also
“JJ6-5546” registered in Edmonton , remember it well ,lol
Fight for your place at the operator
And then there was the infamous call overheard by many when a fella phoned his wife to inform her that he wasn’t getting days off again
She replied “well there is going to be some ****ing going on here this weekend , if you wanna be in on it , you better be here”

Aw yes, radio telephones as well. Mine was XJ5, can't remember the rest.
Knock knock. Who's there. Dishes. Dishes who? Dishes the Shlay Lake mobel operator, who's calling?
Ya, I'm going to hell.

[Chief]

Who on this site would consider buying a 10 year old EV? Last time I checked, a 10 year old well maintained ICE vehicle still had interested buyers.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Who on this site would consider buying a 10 year old EV? Last time I checked, a 10 year old well maintained ICE vehicle still had interested buyers.

Probably the same people who would consider buying 10 a year old cordless power tool or cell phone with the original battery.

[Chief]

Exactly A5. The depreciation on these vehicles is going to make peoples heads spin until they fall off.


Right now a person who can not afford new can buy an old beater and get from a to b. If they are mechanically inclined it will keep running for many years. A used up battery in an old EV, not so much.

[blackpowder]

Years off lower and middle income people driving them that's for sure.

[Hamloc]

Read a very interesting article on Reuters this morning:”Scratched EV battery? Your insurer may have to junk the whole car.”

Where to start? Tesla’s make the battery part of the main structure of the vehicle. $20000 for a new battery on a $43000 car that depreciates quickly. Tesla won’t release diagnostics, no way to test the battery. Write off the car.

EV’s cost more to insure. 27% higher rates in the U.S.

Still working on making the batteries recyclable. In Britain first a written off car must have the battery tested for integrity so there is no risk of fire then are stacked and stored in containers.

On the plus side manufacturers are working on making the batteries easier to test and repair(except Tesla).

Anyway interesting article, not sure EV’s are an improvement in any way. Much more in the article.

[chuckChuck]

https://www.motortrend.com/news/evs-more-efficient-than-internal-combustion-engines/

Electric Vehicles Are Way, Way More Energy-Efficient Than Internal Combustion Vehicles
Say you drop $5 on a gallon of gas—only about $1 dollar's worth actually gets you moving in a traditional ICE vehicle.
Justin WestbrookWriterFile PhotoIllustratorPovi PullinenPhotographer
Aug 12, 2022

Out of the 8.9 million barrels of gasoline consumed daily in the U.S. on average, only 1.8 million gallons, or approximately 20 percent, actually propel an internal combustion vehicle forward. The other 80 percent is wasted on heat and parasitic auxiliary components that draw away energy. As the world begins its shift to EV proliferation, the good news is electric vehicles are far more energy efficient on the road.

A new set of graphics from Yale Climate Connections makes visualizing the efficiency gains of an EV over an ICE vehicle straightforward. Using data from fueleconomy.gov and the U.S. Energy Information Administration, these graphics break down the energy waste in your typical gas-powered car.

The vast majority of energy wasted in an ICE vehicle is through the heat the engine produces, which you can literally feel radiating from under the hood. About 5 percent is lost through parasitic engine components including the cooling system, which draws on the engine's own energy to help cool it down, about 4 percent is lost through the mechanical friction of the drivetrain and transmission components, and another 2 percent could be lost to auxiliary electrics like heated and powered seats, lights, and infotainment systems. In total, approximately 75 to 84 percent of the original gasoline's energy is lost.

Compare that to only 31-35 percent energy loss in the average electric vehicle (average EV battery size is about 63 kWh), before factoring in potential recuperation from energy regeneration. Its losses can be broken down into approximately 10 percent of the source energy from the grid lost in the charging process, 18 percent lost to the drivetrain motor components, up to 4 percent lost to auxiliary components, and another 3 percent lost solely from powertrain cooling and other vehicle systems.

Comparing the two, "the rough math pencils out to the energy equivalent of around 2 million barrels of gasoline per day, which is a substantial savings over the 8.9 million barrels currently used," according to Yale Climate Connections. But what about the power plants used to "refuel" those electric cars? Are they any more efficient than gas-powered cars? Well, yes. Much more efficient, in most cases.

"Even if the grid were entirely fueled by coal, 31% less energy would be needed to charge EVs than to fuel gasoline cars. If EVs were charged by natural gas, the total energy demand for highway transportation would fall by nearly half. Add in hydropower or other renewables, and the result gets even better, saving up to three-fourths of the energy currently used by gasoline-powered vehicles," according to Yale Climate Connections. Right now, all of that energy is getting lost mostly to heat. What a waste. For more facts and figures, read the full Yale Climate Connections report here.

[chuckChuck]

It turns out that to electrify personal transportation doesn't require as much new electricity as the naysayers claim because EVs are so much more efficient than very inefficient ICE vehicles.

[chuckChuck]

It turns out that to electrify personal transportation doesn't require as much new electricity as the naysayers claim because EVs are so much more efficient than very inefficient ICE vehicles.

[ATTACH]12209[/ATTACH]

This will make it easier to read I hope.

[TOM4CWB]

EV=CO2 Reduction???? Not.

Perhaps in some warm windy climates… which can generate reliable solar /wind energy…. Some day in the future…

For 80 % of the global land mass… hydro and nuclear will be required for reliable electrical grid supply….

Interesting times!

The UN just released a grim reaper climate report… add fuel to the fire… not constructive or practical.

Blessings and Prayers

Cold weather for the next month in North America… way below normal…

Climate change… blame it on global warming!

Cheers

[chuckChuck]

To read the image above read the whole article from Yale on line.

https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2022/08/electrifying-transportation-reduces-emissions-and-saves-massive-amounts-of-energy/

Electrifying transportation reduces emissions AND saves massive amounts of energy
Electric vehicles are far more energy-efficient than traditional internal combustion vehicles.
Karin Kirk
by Karin Kirk August 7, 2022
EV concept

With high energy prices and increasing urgency to reduce fossil fuel burning, it makes sense to get the most out of every gallon of gasoline or kilowatt-hour of electricity.

A previous post showed that charging an EV costs around the equivalent of $1.41 per gallon in the U.S., offering consumers a major savings over gasoline. Part of why EVs are cheap to operate is that they use energy with impressive efficiency.

Delving deeper, there’s a stark difference between the way internal combustion and electric engines use energy. The bad news is that combustion engines are fundamentally inefficient. But the good news is that electric motors offer vast improvements and save money and energy. Even better: Replacing traditional vehicles with electric ones will require far less energy overall.

Modern gasoline-powered vehicles waste a whopping 80% of the energy in their fuel. For each gallon pumped into the tank, only a bit more than three cups go to moving the vehicle forward. In economic terms, for a $5.00 gallon of gasoline, only $1.00 of it gets you closer to your destination.

Most of this waste is an inescapable consequence of thermodynamics. Internal combustion engines ignite liquid fuel to create a pressurized gas that pushes pistons to turn a crankshaft that ultimately spins the car’s wheels. This multistep process bleeds off energy all along the way. Most of the energy in the fuel ends up as heat, and only a small fraction reaches the wheels. The concept of wasted heat becomes intuitive when one thinks about the hot air wafting off a car’s running engine. The engine itself gets hot; a cooling system is needed to manage excess heat; and heat is dispersed through the radiator and blows out the exhaust. All of that heat comes from gasoline, and none of it helps propel the vehicle.

Further energy uses come from pumps and fans, some of which, ironically, are needed to carry away waste heat. These are called parasitic losses. Mechanical friction within the transmission and drivetrain lops another 3 to 5% off the overall efficiency. The final loss of energy is from auxiliary electrical components like heated seats, lights, the audio system, and windshield wipers. Taken together, these accessories can consume up to 2% of the vehicle’s total energy intake.

The net result is that only around 20% of the energy that’s pumped into the fuel tank ends up at the wheels.
Gas-powered vehicle energy losses

Even the most fuel-efficient gasoline-powered vehicles can’t sidestep these energy losses. Cars with high fuel economy are lighter, smaller, and more aerodynamic, thereby making the best possible use of the energy that ends up in the drivetrain. Diesel engines have somewhat better thermodynamic efficiency, averaging in the high 30s to around 40%. But major thermodynamic losses are a stubborn fact of life for all combustion-based engines.

For a more detailed explanation and sources for the figure above, see FuelEconomy.gov.
The simple efficiency of electric motors

Electric vehicles are propelled by entirely different mechanisms. Energy enters the vehicle as electricity, which directly powers the drivetrain: EVs need not convert one form of energy to another, which is a big factor in their efficiency

Electric motors are simple machines with few moving parts, especially compared with the complexities of an internal combustion engine. In an EV, electricity from the car’s battery flows into a cylinder that generates a rotating magnetic field. Inside that cylinder is a rotor that spins as it gets pulled along by the magnetic attraction. The spinning rotor turns an axle that drives the wheels.

The whole process works in reverse, too: The car’s spinning wheels can turn the rotor and feed electricity back into the battery. This process of regenerative braking can recapture energy that would otherwise be lost as friction and heat.

EVs are not 100% efficient though, and they lose energy in a few ways. Some energy is lost in the process of recharging the battery, and electricity is consumed for the vehicle’s cooling and power steering. Auxiliary electric use is higher in EVs compared with combustion engines, mostly due to the electricity needed to heat the car’s interior in cold weather. In an internal combustion vehicle, waste heat is used to warm the car’s cabin.

In all, the various energy losses in an EV add up to 31% to 35%. Regenerative braking adds 22% back into the system, making the overall efficiency around 87% to 91%. The specific numbers vary based on the type of car and how it’s used, but the overall simplicity and efficiency is a contrast to traditional vehicles that have been the mainstay of the roadways for 130 years.

The numbers are from FuelEconomy.gov, and DigitalTrends has a helpful explainer for how various components of EVs work.
Energy lost by electric vehicles
Transition to EVs will reduce overall amount of energy needed for transportation

The energy efficiency of EVs is a clear boon for consumers, but it offers an even more significant benefit in the transition away from petroleum-burning transportation. In the U.S., about 8.9 million barrels of motor gasoline are used every day, and around 80% of that energy is wasted as heat and friction. Of the total amount of gasoline burned, only 1.8 million of those barrels (20%) propel vehicles along the road. This means that if the gasoline vehicle fleet was replaced with EVs, those EVs would need the energy equivalent of only around 1.8 million barrels of gasoline per day, plus the 11% energy loss within the EV itself. The rough math pencils out to the energy equivalent of around 2 million barrels of gasoline per day, which is a substantial savings over the 8.9 million barrels currently used.

Of course, this begs the question of the efficiency of electric power plants that charge EVs. Thermal power plants – such as coal, gas, or nuclear – face similar thermodynamic challenges as internal combustion engines, but power plants are more efficient than cars. Coal and nuclear are around 33% efficient, and combined cycle natural gas power plants are about 44% efficient. At the top end of the scale, hydropower is approximately 90% efficient. Even if the grid were entirely fueled by coal, 31% less energy would be needed to charge EVs than to fuel gasoline cars. If EVs were charged by natural gas, the total energy demand for highway transportation would fall by nearly half. Add in hydropower or other renewables, and the result gets even better, saving up to three-fourths of the energy currently used by gasoline-powered vehicles.
Replacing gasoline with different energy sources

But what about batteries? Manufacturing an EV battery consumes the energy equivalent of about 74 gallons of gasoline. Over the 10-year lifespan (or more) of the battery, the energy investment in the battery is far too small to change the outcome – which is good news.

Decarbonizing the world’s energy supply is an enormous and daunting task. But at least in this case, the job gets easier as highway transportation shifts away from oil. The major improvement in driving efficiency offered by EVs means that vehicles can emit less carbon and less pollution, while also lowering overall energy demand. In a world of tough tradeoffs, this one is an easy win.

Editor’s note: An upcoming article at this site will explore the efficiency of different types of power generation, including wind and solar.

[shtferbrains]

EV=CO2 Reduction???? Not.

Perhaps in some warm windy climates… which can generate reliable solar /wind energy…. Some day in the future…

For 80 % of the global land mass… hydro and nuclear will be required for reliable electrical grid supply….

Interesting times!

The UN just released a grim reaper climate report… add fuel to the fire… not constructive or practical.

Blessings and Prayers

Cold weather for the next month in North America… way below normal…

Climate change… blame it on global warming!

Cheers

Bloomberg says talk at the upcoming G7 many countries will be focused on energy security. Climate Change / Green Economy has been bumped way down the list for obvious reasons.
We saw a preview with Germany and Japan visits.

How will PMJT react? Will he keep parroting his single focus agenda? Will he sulk off to the fringes? Or come home with a new attitude and help our allies with new development of our natural resources?

Climate Change/woke/inclusiveness agenda is not playing well these days.

People value their house, car, and food more than they realized.