Massive Farm Protest in Belgium

[sumdumguy]

Friday saw hundreds of tractors blocking main streets in Belgium as farmers protest environmental heavy-hand restricting nitrate agricultural application. What do you think their government will do to clear the streets? Do you think the protestors’ bank accounts/property will be seized and their farm loans will be called?

[TSIPP]

Just bring out the stomping horses, that one always works.

[jazz]

Not sure what protesting can do when the govt has the power to go after your titles.

[fjlip]

And all the TANKS are sitting at BIG Zel compounds.

[TSIPP]

The Dutch know how to eat politicians, maybe it should catch on agin.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Do like Denmark?
https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/tillage-conference-the-story-of-compulsory-cover-crops-in-denmark/

From the article

Catch nutrients from the soil?
Can you explain this concept of catch?
Perhaps it is a translation error, and they mean to say catch nitrogen from the air?
Otherwise, catching nutrients from the soil ( as stated), is a perpetual motion machine.

[biglentil]

You won't see this on the CBC. https://twitter.com/i/status/1632099899536818177

[jazz]

Wow, farmers and urbanites unite to stop the radical agenda in Netherlands. Whats wrong with out city folk.

[chuckChuck]

Catch nutrients from the soil?
Can you explain this concept of catch?
Perhaps it is a translation error, and they mean to say catch nitrogen from the air?
Otherwise, catching nutrients from the soil ( as stated), is a perpetual motion machine.

Catch crops or cover crops can be either legumes or not or a mixture They can capture nutrients, reduce leaching, reduce surface erosion and nutrient loss. etc.

Regenerative ag talks about cover/catch crops all the time. I am surprised you haven't heard of the concept as many of the mixed farms across the prairies have been talking about cover crops for many years.

A lot of Europe is still using intensive tillage and intensive amounts of fertilizer. So cover crops have potential to protect the soil and manage nutrient loss.

[blackpowder]

Very good.
In this zone we just need to convince the banker.

[chuckChuck]

There still areas on the prairies where there is a fair amount of tillage. Heavy crop areas in the red river valley and around portage for example. Ontario also has lots of tillage still.

But they are a tough fit in the drier zero till shorter season areas.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Catch crops or cover crops can be either legumes or not or a mixture They can capture nutrients, reduce leaching, reduce surface erosion and nutrient loss. etc.

Regenerative ag talks about cover/catch crops all the time. I am surprised you haven't heard of the concept as many of the mixed farms across the prairies have been talking about cover crops for many years.

A lot of Europe is still using intensive tillage and intensive amounts of fertilizer. So cover crops have potential to protect the soil and manage nutrient loss.

Thank you Chuck for a well reasoned, mature post, entirely on a topic relative to agriculture, completely devoid of insults. In hopes of encouraging such reciprocity, I will respond in kind.

As you correctly point out, legumes can fix nitrogen, and cover/catch crops can retain nutrients and the soil which contains them, which may otherwise erode, blow or leach away. Conserving them for future crops. A very beneficial solution for areas which would otherwise lay fallow during the growing season, or require intensive tillage.

My purpose in responding to the regenerative ag poster as I did, was trying to see if he would acknowledge the limitations of such practices, or if he is one of the true believers who believe that such practices negate the need for nutrients all together.
There exists a school of thought, which seems to have infected many western governments, and organizations such as NFU, that regenerative ag/organic/sustainable etc. work like magic, and can somehow negate the laws of physics. That mass balances no longer exist etc. The soil can be mined indefinitely if we just use cover crops and apply natural snake oils.

The best a cover crop can do is retain the existing nutrients. P,K,S and micronutrients cannot be fixed from the atmosphere. Using cover crops to mine previously unavailable nutrients, or nutrients from deeper in the profile is still mining nutrients. It is not sustainable in any long term ( and to be fair, neither is applying finite nutrients from actual mining).

The only actual solution is closing the loop on nutrients, every nutrient that is exported from the farm has to be recovered and come back to the farm. Everything else is just a short term feel good band-aid.

And as a side note, if anyone knows of a cover crop that will work in my climate, I am very willing to try it. We typically harvest after a killing frost, and often with snow on the ground, and seeding starts shortly after the last snowbank has receded far enough. I think it has to be a perennial which can be suppressed early in the growing season, then allowed to recover later in the summer.

[WiltonRanch]

Think for a good majority of the prairies our soil conservation practices we have been doing for 40 years and widespread adoption in the at least 25 past years mitigates a lot denitrification, leaching, and ghg emissions. We might be a bit myopic as to farming practices elsewhere. Farming practices which we perceive as ultimately bad for us here are a necessary evil for other areas until better economical solutions are presented. Zero tillage could work but a ban on glyphosate makes it impossible in certain countries. Some fields have been farmed for centuries and it is amazing anything grows let alone ratcheting back fertilizer. Cover crops definitely has soil health and environmental benefits but economic benefits are what ultimately determines if they last from one societal zeitgeist to the next. If you really want to curb ag emissions start in the cradles of civilization with education as to proper farming practices. China even realized they have a problem with excessive fertilizer use leaching into waters. Average use is approaching 400# product per acre done in the most inefficient means. Their soils are poor and do require high fertility to get any yield but hand bombing it in the heat of the day loses a lot. India is about the same as well. The ideal thing would be long term covers to hopefully build the soils but you know where that goes. As globalization withers and our world population declines the need for our higher production will follow. This is 50 years out so we might as well take advantage of present demand rather than falling on our swords.

[blackpowder]

Not sure if this fits here or should be a thread starter of it's own.
Today sat through a presentation on proposed N reductions by an industry rep who was in the room near the beginning of this process.
It is incomprehensible how little our law writers know about agriculture foreign or domestic, chemistry, world trade or the basic laws of economics. The latter the most concerning. I came away truly speechless. And our powerlessness leaves me a little numb. Even after discounting the usual East-West bias at play.
The climate change bogey man isn't going anywhere. But the current path by the ruling class is headed for an iceberg. And we're in steerage.

[chuckChuck]

Only a small percentage of farmers are soil testing all their fields and applying fertilizer rates on each field based on the soil test results. Which goes against the 4 Rs of fertilizer management.

Right Source, Right Rate, Right Time, Right Place.

So if farmers aren't soil testing and are putting the same rate on most fields whether they precisely know what is needed or not, how can this be considered good fertilizer management?

Right Source

Select the correct source of nutrient for your soil ensuring a balanced supply of essential plant nutrients including granular or liquid fertilizers or manures.

Right Rate

Consider the availability of nutrients from all sources (eg. livestock manures, commercial fertilizers and atmospheric nitrogen fixed by legumes).
Perform annual soil testing.
Apply nutrients to meet crop requirements while accounting for the nutrients already in the soil.
Calibrate application equipment to deliver target rates.

Right Time

Avoid fertilizer or manure application on snow or frozen soils.
Carry out nutrient management planning on an annual basis.

Right Place

Respect recommended setback distances for nutrient application near waterways.
Place nutrients below the soil surface where they can be taken up by growing roots when needed.