Rationing Health Care

[AlbertaFarmer5]

You keep contradicting yourself. You started out claiming this was a lack of human resources and resources, and that by allowing additional funding to compete for those finite resources, it would only make the problem worse. So I offered the example of the parallel public and private systems in road construction, and suddenly you changed your argument to being a lack of funding, not a lack of resources. Then you suggested we should send more funding to the US system rather than capture it in our own underfunded system. So apparently you aren't very concerned about shortage of capital either.
To the casual observer, one could be excused for thinking you don't actually have any solutions to offer, you just want to repeat the mantra that private or profit is bad, public is good.

[chuckChuck]

You keep contradicting yourself. You started out claiming this was a lack of human resources and resources, and that by allowing additional funding to compete for those finite resources, it would only make the problem worse. So I offered the example of the parallel public and private systems in road construction, and suddenly you changed your argument to being a lack of funding, not a lack of resources. Then you suggested we should send more funding to the US system rather than capture it in our own underfunded system. So apparently you aren't very concerned about shortage of capital either.
To the casual observer, one could be excused for thinking you don't actually have any solutions to offer, you just want to repeat the mantra that private or profit is bad, public is good.

It's a combination of many things depending on what part of the healthcare system we are talking about.

It's staff shortages. And according to the quote I included, a shortage of provincial budget funds for more surgeries.

Of course I don't have the solutions and neither do you.

But what i can do is read about what healthcare professionals are saying about the system.

How many of them are saying we can do more and cheaper in a private parallel system of for profit clinics? Where would the staff and budget come from if they are both short?

And where would the profit come from?

You don't have any good answers or evidence that the private system would solve the problems.

Many Canadians don't have a family doctor. As a result they end up at overun ERs or walk in clinics.
Many hospital beds are tied up with seniors needing long term care beds that aren't available.

Sounds like the system is short of many things.

And where is the evidence that these systemic problems would be solved by private for profit healthcare?

Show us the evidence! We are waiting.

I think conservative governments want to blame public healthcare, set up private health care as much as possible and offload some their healthcare budgets onto those who need surgeries and healthcare so that someone can make a profit off the backs of those who need help. Its unethical.

[Landdownunder]

depends on level of cover you wish to have.

good friend almost 70 his premium tad lower than mine his choice.

hasnt got as high extra cover meaning chiropracters covered or optomitrists huge array of differences in cover and what you want.

tweaked mine only a month ago and chap said "that dont do cover like this anymore rolls royce" been in it for years as i said. my choice my $$$$

another example over due for colonoscopy by about 2 years rang gastroligists office 6 week wait versus apparently 18 month in public sysem will pay for peace of mind.

was a bit of a rough and tumble chap in many ascpects of my life dear old dad suggested way back when err i think you better get private medical wise advice.

covid related issues way quicker in private as well.

free ambulance cover as well lots of advantages.

wife cracked her skull in a horse fall helicoptered from farm to big smoke bit over $11000 all covered.

[Landdownunder]

Im not a burden on public health system one less they have to worry about.

[Landdownunder]

at least you guys trying to curb alcohol abuse. sorry small cut and paste.

cut my beer and red wine to bugger all feel better for it. had 2 mid strength beers last night after hard day in shearing shed first beer for 2 weeks. read on

Canada has recently moved to lower the recommended weekly number of standard drinks to two, amid growing evidence of alcohol’s harms.

In line with this, the JAMA study found alcohol consumption was associated with “a significantly increased risk of all-cause mortality” and that those who didn’t drink lived longer. The higher risk of mortality kicked in for women if consumption was two drinks a day or more, whereas for men three or four drinks a day was the threshold for harm.

Australia recommends no more than 10 drinks a week and no more than four in one session.

Canada’s guidelines are based on good evidence, but Professor Stamatakis says they’re unlikely to be replicated here.

“The Canadian guidelines have been criticised for being non-realistic,” he says. “We have to acknowledge that alcohol is a very big part of our … social life. ”

[AlbertaFarmer5]

p so that someone can make a profit off the backs of those who need help. Its unethical.

But letting people Fester away in chronic pain for years while they wait in line for the rationed services of the public system is not unethical?
Just so long as they all suffer equally, and no one makes any profit, then the suffering is ethical, correct?

[Landdownunder]

glenns not quite correct.

i got second hip ahead of time my choice.

could have got another year out of it.

when they screwed tendons on my shoulder went in before time and they realized it was stuffed once they cut me oopen.

Also we have "no claim bonus" people who have private health but never used it get decreasing premiums i dont qualify for that.

seeems we have quite different health system those under certain income level get free health but faced with burdensome wait times.

my actual view is if you can afford private you should be almost forced to have it to take pressure of public system. Not sure of % maybe 15%.

Were all different.

[chuckChuck]

But letting people Fester away in chronic pain for years while they wait in line for the rationed services of the public system is not unethical?
Just so long as they all suffer equally, and no one makes any profit, then the suffering is ethical, correct?

Well that is a good question for your premier and minister of health and ours as well.

Why are they not funding and providing enough resources whether it's in the private or public system?

But you still haven't made a case for why a for profit private clinic would reduce wait times and lower costs if there is a shortage of staff and budget to do the surgery.

Again where will the profit come from?

Because governments and clinics are not giving taxpayers the numbers and data from private clinic contracts to decide which is a better deal for everyone.

Are they trying to cover up the additional costs of a private for profit clinic or system? Or just not funding the public system enough to get the job done?

[chuckChuck]

at least you guys trying to curb alcohol abuse. sorry small cut and paste.

cut my beer and red wine to bugger all feel better for it. had 2 mid strength beers last night after hard day in shearing shed first beer for 2 weeks. read on

Canada has recently moved to lower the recommended weekly number of standard drinks to two, amid growing evidence of alcohol’s harms.

In line with this, the JAMA study found alcohol consumption was associated with “a significantly increased risk of all-cause mortality” and that those who didn’t drink lived longer. The higher risk of mortality kicked in for women if consumption was two drinks a day or more, whereas for men three or four drinks a day was the threshold for harm.

Australia recommends no more than 10 drinks a week and no more than four in one session.

Canada’s guidelines are based on good evidence, but Professor Stamatakis says they’re unlikely to be replicated here.

“The Canadian guidelines have been criticised for being non-realistic,” he says. “We have to acknowledge that alcohol is a very big part of our … social life. ”

Hey Downunder no cut and paste. No one will read it!

10 drinks a week and no more than 4 in one sitting? Wholly crap! that's quite a few unless you are a chronic drinker. I suspect that lots of folks here are in that ball park too.

Farmers used to be fit and more healthy. At least our parents generation. Lots of exercise, hard manual work and decent unprocessed food.

But things are not looking so great now with all the processed food full of fat, sugar and sodium.

And many grain farmers are sitting a lot, not getting enough exercise and are overweight.

Many men passing away in their 60s from heart disease. Alcohol is a contributing factor in many diseases.

[Landdownunder]

possibly correct.

hot day two days ago had two cans of 5.2% alc beer equals i think 3.6 standard drinks letter of the law nearly 4 drinks

depends on many things though

could have quite easily had six cans had dinner but chose not to.

lad could have polished of a dozen and gone to bed as fit as a fiddle next morn.

my wife is swiss/russian loves er gin or vodka my biological parents hungarian/german beer red wine for me so the lad genetic tolerance to alcohol......

err glenn thats humour if ya missed it

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Hey Downunder no cut and paste. No one will read it!

10 drinks a week and no more than 4 in one sitting? Wholly crap! that's quite a few unless you are a chronic drinker. I suspect that lots of folks here are in that ball park too.

Farmers used to be fit and more healthy. At least our parents generation. Lots of exercise, hard manual work and decent unprocessed food.

But things are not looking so great now with all the processed food full of fat, sugar and sodium.

And many grain farmers are sitting a lot, not getting enough exercise and are overweight.

Many men passing away in their 60s from heart disease. Alcohol is a contributing factor in many diseases.

That completely sensible rational post sounded dangerously close to you suggesting that personal responsibility has a role to play in our healthcare system. We have discussed personal responsibility in the past, and you seem to be opposed to the concept in most applications.
I certainly agree with your newfound perspective. Personally, I don't drink or partake of any other substances, we eat very healthy, I get lots of exercise in my regular daily activities, still the same pants size I've been since high school. Last time I went for my driver's medical, the doctor just laughed at the idea that I need a medical every 2 years to keep my license.
Yet if I for my healthy responsible family do require the services of the medical system, we are punished by the same intentional rationing of services, and ridiculous wait times as many unhealthy, obese, risk takers, substance abuser etc.
How do you suggest a free medical system with limited resources encourage/reward good behavior, and disuade unhealthy activities?
Go back to the absurd example I made a while back, if all dental services were free, how many people wouldn't even own a toothbrush.
To ask the question a different way, do you think a system which everyone benefits from, but has no direct costs to the participants,can be sustainable without personal responsibility?

[chuckChuck]

Your argument that our problem is a lack of personal responsibility falls flat when you look at the health of many americans who don't have adequate health insurance or health care.

In their for profit private system by most measures, americans are less healthy.

Personal responsibilty is important but so is collective responsibility.

For one thing the food industry is pushing unhealthy food in their marketing campaigns on kids who often dont have the discipline to make good decisions about healthy choices. And they don't want to reduce sugar, sodium and fat.

And you still haven't told us how for profit clinics would solve all the problems of health care and where their profit would come from? We are waiting?