Rationing Health Care

[Landdownunder]

glenns not quite correct.

i got second hip ahead of time my choice.

could have got another year out of it.

when they screwed tendons on my shoulder went in before time and they realized it was stuffed once they cut me oopen.

Also we have "no claim bonus" people who have private health but never used it get decreasing premiums i dont qualify for that.

seeems we have quite different health system those under certain income level get free health but faced with burdensome wait times.

my actual view is if you can afford private you should be almost forced to have it to take pressure of public system. Not sure of % maybe 15%.

Were all different.

[chuckChuck]

But letting people Fester away in chronic pain for years while they wait in line for the rationed services of the public system is not unethical?
Just so long as they all suffer equally, and no one makes any profit, then the suffering is ethical, correct?

Well that is a good question for your premier and minister of health and ours as well.

Why are they not funding and providing enough resources whether it's in the private or public system?

But you still haven't made a case for why a for profit private clinic would reduce wait times and lower costs if there is a shortage of staff and budget to do the surgery.

Again where will the profit come from?

Because governments and clinics are not giving taxpayers the numbers and data from private clinic contracts to decide which is a better deal for everyone.

Are they trying to cover up the additional costs of a private for profit clinic or system? Or just not funding the public system enough to get the job done?

[chuckChuck]

at least you guys trying to curb alcohol abuse. sorry small cut and paste.

cut my beer and red wine to bugger all feel better for it. had 2 mid strength beers last night after hard day in shearing shed first beer for 2 weeks. read on

Canada has recently moved to lower the recommended weekly number of standard drinks to two, amid growing evidence of alcohol’s harms.

In line with this, the JAMA study found alcohol consumption was associated with “a significantly increased risk of all-cause mortality” and that those who didn’t drink lived longer. The higher risk of mortality kicked in for women if consumption was two drinks a day or more, whereas for men three or four drinks a day was the threshold for harm.

Australia recommends no more than 10 drinks a week and no more than four in one session.

Canada’s guidelines are based on good evidence, but Professor Stamatakis says they’re unlikely to be replicated here.

“The Canadian guidelines have been criticised for being non-realistic,” he says. “We have to acknowledge that alcohol is a very big part of our … social life. ”

Hey Downunder no cut and paste. No one will read it!

10 drinks a week and no more than 4 in one sitting? Wholly crap! that's quite a few unless you are a chronic drinker. I suspect that lots of folks here are in that ball park too.

Farmers used to be fit and more healthy. At least our parents generation. Lots of exercise, hard manual work and decent unprocessed food.

But things are not looking so great now with all the processed food full of fat, sugar and sodium.

And many grain farmers are sitting a lot, not getting enough exercise and are overweight.

Many men passing away in their 60s from heart disease. Alcohol is a contributing factor in many diseases.

[Landdownunder]

possibly correct.

hot day two days ago had two cans of 5.2% alc beer equals i think 3.6 standard drinks letter of the law nearly 4 drinks

depends on many things though

could have quite easily had six cans had dinner but chose not to.

lad could have polished of a dozen and gone to bed as fit as a fiddle next morn.

my wife is swiss/russian loves er gin or vodka my biological parents hungarian/german beer red wine for me so the lad genetic tolerance to alcohol......

err glenn thats humour if ya missed it

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Hey Downunder no cut and paste. No one will read it!

10 drinks a week and no more than 4 in one sitting? Wholly crap! that's quite a few unless you are a chronic drinker. I suspect that lots of folks here are in that ball park too.

Farmers used to be fit and more healthy. At least our parents generation. Lots of exercise, hard manual work and decent unprocessed food.

But things are not looking so great now with all the processed food full of fat, sugar and sodium.

And many grain farmers are sitting a lot, not getting enough exercise and are overweight.

Many men passing away in their 60s from heart disease. Alcohol is a contributing factor in many diseases.

That completely sensible rational post sounded dangerously close to you suggesting that personal responsibility has a role to play in our healthcare system. We have discussed personal responsibility in the past, and you seem to be opposed to the concept in most applications.
I certainly agree with your newfound perspective. Personally, I don't drink or partake of any other substances, we eat very healthy, I get lots of exercise in my regular daily activities, still the same pants size I've been since high school. Last time I went for my driver's medical, the doctor just laughed at the idea that I need a medical every 2 years to keep my license.
Yet if I for my healthy responsible family do require the services of the medical system, we are punished by the same intentional rationing of services, and ridiculous wait times as many unhealthy, obese, risk takers, substance abuser etc.
How do you suggest a free medical system with limited resources encourage/reward good behavior, and disuade unhealthy activities?
Go back to the absurd example I made a while back, if all dental services were free, how many people wouldn't even own a toothbrush.
To ask the question a different way, do you think a system which everyone benefits from, but has no direct costs to the participants,can be sustainable without personal responsibility?

[chuckChuck]

Your argument that our problem is a lack of personal responsibility falls flat when you look at the health of many americans who don't have adequate health insurance or health care.

In their for profit private system by most measures, americans are less healthy.

Personal responsibilty is important but so is collective responsibility.

For one thing the food industry is pushing unhealthy food in their marketing campaigns on kids who often dont have the discipline to make good decisions about healthy choices. And they don't want to reduce sugar, sodium and fat.

And you still haven't told us how for profit clinics would solve all the problems of health care and where their profit would come from? We are waiting?

[sumdumguy]

Your argument that our problem is a lack of personal responsibility falls flat when you look at the health of many americans who don't have adequate health insurance or health care.

In their for profit private system by most measures, americans are less healthy.

Personal responsibilty is important but so is collective responsibility.

For one thing the food industry is pushing unhealthy food in their marketing campaigns on kids who often dont have the discipline to make good decisions about healthy choices. And they don't want to reduce sugar, sodium and fat.

And you still haven't told us how for profit clinics would solve all the problems of health care and where their profit would come from? We are waiting?

This system is bogged down, do you get it? Profits would come from people who are willing to pay handsomely for prompt health service. Surely you understand that this second line would take pressure off public health care. Remember how you fought to disallow a second system with the CWB? We asked, begged and went to jail for freedom to choose, I am old enough to vividly remember.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Your argument that our problem is a lack of personal responsibility falls flat when you look at the health of many americans who don't have adequate health insurance or health care.

In their for profit private system by most measures, americans are less healthy.

Personal responsibilty is important but so is collective responsibility.

For one thing the food industry is pushing unhealthy food in their marketing campaigns on kids who often dont have the discipline to make good decisions about healthy choices. And they don't want to reduce sugar, sodium and fat.

And you still haven't told us how for profit clinics would solve all the problems of health care and where their profit would come from? We are waiting?

Who is we?

I thought it was too good to be true that you had had an epiphany and were now an advocate for personal responsibility. But why did you make an entire post dedicated to the personal choices responsible people can make that affect their health outcomes?
It is definitely much easier to blame the evil corporations for the poor choices the individuals make, that it is for anyone to accept responsibility for their own actions.

[chuckChuck]

This system is bogged down, do you get it? Profits would come from people who are willing to pay handsomely for prompt health service. Surely you understand that this second line would take pressure off public health care. Remember how you fought to disallow a second system with the CWB? We asked, begged and went to jail for freedom to choose, I am old enough to vividly remember.

So you support a two tier health care system one for the rich and one for the rest?

Well most Canadians dont!

[fjlip]

Gormley read survey results....majority do. Bigger majority in Quebec.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Gormley read survey results....majority do. Bigger majority in Quebec.

Isn't Chuck the guy who rigged the CWB poll to try to make it look like the majority of farmers wanted to keep the cwb? Some things never change.

[Landdownunder]

dead set legend AB5 same clothes size as high school well done. i tip my lid.

myself was in good shape till about 40 ive now got a wide load sign tattooed across my butt.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

dead set legend AB5 same clothes size as high school well done. i tip my lid.

myself was in good shape till about 40 ive now got a wide load sign tattooed across my butt.

Of course, I neglected to mention that I was XXXXL size back in high school, and I just graduated from high school in 2022, but it's an accomplishment nonetheless right?

[Landdownunder]

Of course, I neglected to mention that I was XXXXL size back in high school, and I just graduated from high school in 2022, but it's an accomplishment nonetheless right?

hehehe all good my freind.

guess im mystified and shall bow out of this thread cause can figure why i and people like should be almost castigated and vilified cause we pay for own health im not a socialist or communist who wants govt to do everything for me.

Im out cheers going to supermarket to mmorow to look for weight watchers easter eggs apparently you can eat twice as many for same result im in

[chuckChuck]

Here is a deeper dive into what Canadians think about healthcare from a very recent Angus Reid poll.

Public Purists, Privatization Proponents and the Curious: Canada’s three health-care mindsets

https://angusreid.org/health-care-privatization-perspectives/

Now its time for the Provinces to make the contracts for private clinics open and transparent so that taxpayers can see the costs vs the public system.

Any reluctance to do this is an indication that they have something to hide.