Electric.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

EV vs. Gas: Which Cars Are Cheaper to Own?

We use data and simple math in an attempt to answer this very complicated question.
By Roberto Baldwin, Sasha Richie and Dave VanderWerpPublished: Oct 28, 2022

https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a32494027/ev-vs-gas-cheaper-to-own/

Which Is Cheaper to Own?

So, by our calculations this makes the electric F-150 $2664 cheaper to own and operate over the first three years than its gas counterpart—and that’s without the tax credit. With it, it’s a substantial $10,164 less. The Kona Electric, on the other hand, is more costly than the gas version by $2041 without the tax credit, but $5459 cheaper with it. There can also be state and local incentives for EVs to factor in if those are available. Plus, as the years progress the lower costs of operating an electric vehicle (fuel and maintenance) continue to accrue.

https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a32494027/ev-vs-gas-cheaper-to-own/

That is good news.

No more need for mandates, or subsidies. There must be savings left over for EV owners to pay their share of road taxes too, and recycling fees.
Why is Ford still projecting another 3 billion loss on their EV division this year? If your claims are correct, then that must be a mistake.
What do you suppose is the hold up?
Must be some conspiracy by the oil companies, right?

[chuckChuck]

EV vs. Gas: Which Cars Are Cheaper to Own?

We use data and simple math in an attempt to answer this very complicated question.
By Roberto Baldwin, Sasha Richie and Dave VanderWerpPublished: Oct 28, 2022

https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a32494027/ev-vs-gas-cheaper-to-own/

Which Is Cheaper to Own?

So, by our calculations this makes the electric F-150 $2664 cheaper to own and operate over the first three years than its gas counterpart—and that’s without the tax credit. With it, it’s a substantial $10,164 less. The Kona Electric, on the other hand, is more costly than the gas version by $2041 without the tax credit, but $5459 cheaper with it. There can also be state and local incentives for EVs to factor in if those are available. Plus, as the years progress the lower costs of operating an electric vehicle (fuel and maintenance) continue to accrue.

https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a32494027/ev-vs-gas-cheaper-to-own/

[cropgrower]

why let the facts get in the way of a good story ? thats what happens when you have been brainwashed

[AlbertaFarmer5]

The ownership costs of EVs will be much lower in the long run. And batteries will come down in price and be recycled.

Now you have deflected to claiming ownership costs will be cheaper. I've already posted many links indicating that thanks, to ruining the electricity grid with renewables, charging costs are now exceeding the cost to fuel an ICE in many places. And this is before road taxes and up front recycling fees inevitably get applied to EV's.


You really don't like math do you. And why do your arguments always involve some future unknown undiscovered nonexistent technology? Our governments are now mandating the use of these vehicles, which can only be manufactured using existing technology.

The unavoidable reality as indicated above, is that an EV is much heavier than an ICE.

Unless that extra weight comes from some as yet unknown product which is cheaper than steel, aluminum and hydrocarbons, how does the EV ever become cheaper than the ICE?

[chuckChuck]

The ownership costs of EVs will be much lower in the long run. And batteries will come down in price and be recycled.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

The price of lithium has gone down a lot.

Lithium carbonate prices sank below CNY 180,000 per tonne in April, the lowest in 18 months and down 70% from their record high in November 2022, as abundant supply and weak demand backed expectations for a surplus this year. The Chinese government ended cash subsidies for households purchasing new energy vehicles, resulting in NEV sales growth slowing to 22% year-on-year in Q1 of 2023 compared with the 93% surge in 2022. The overproduction of batteries at the end of the last year to take advantage of subsidies also attributed to the unsustainable inventory rise and prompted the sale of goods at a steep discount, with sharp capacity cuts in all streams of the supply chain. Still, multiple carbonate producers reported a reduction in their processing rates, while the EU decided to phase out carbon-emitting cars by 2035. Expectations that stockpiles might thin and demand recover led market players to believe prices are reaching their bottom.

Along with all of the other industrial commodities which are needed to build any type of vehicle. This doesn't give any relative advantage to the EV.

[chuckChuck]

The price of lithium has gone down a lot.

Lithium carbonate prices sank below CNY 180,000 per tonne in April, the lowest in 18 months and down 70% from their record high in November 2022, as abundant supply and weak demand backed expectations for a surplus this year. The Chinese government ended cash subsidies for households purchasing new energy vehicles, resulting in NEV sales growth slowing to 22% year-on-year in Q1 of 2023 compared with the 93% surge in 2022. The overproduction of batteries at the end of the last year to take advantage of subsidies also attributed to the unsustainable inventory rise and prompted the sale of goods at a steep discount, with sharp capacity cuts in all streams of the supply chain. Still, multiple carbonate producers reported a reduction in their processing rates, while the EU decided to phase out carbon-emitting cars by 2035. Expectations that stockpiles might thin and demand recover led market players to believe prices are reaching their bottom.

[cropgrower]

Their is risk in everything , notting wrong with wanting to know to know where risk is higher

[AlbertaFarmer5]

"Another major issue with electric vehicles is that they’re significantly heavier than gas-powered vehicles.

“It’s a matter of physics,” said David Adams, the president of the Global Automakers of Canada. “The batteries are extremely heavy and the vehicles are extremely heavy.”

Adams explained that the larger the vehicle, the bigger and heavier the battery will have to be to power it, which makes it even more dangerous to cars on the road. He added that the tires for electric vehicles are also heavier than combustion engine vehicles because they are built to sustain the weight of the battery.

This added weight will put more strain on our roads. It also makes it much more dangerous for gas-powered vehicles when an electric vehicle and a gas-powered car collide.

In 2011, the National Bureau of Economic Research found that if a vehicle weighs 1,000 pounds more than another vehicle, it results in a 47 per cent increase in fatality risk.

Earlier this year, the National Transportation Safety Board in the U.S. raised concerns over the increasing weight of electric trucks and Hummers, saying, “We have to be careful that we aren’t also creating unintended consequences: More death on our roads…safety, especially when it comes to new transportation policies and new technologies, cannot be overlooked.”

Parkades will collapsed from heavier EV's. Bridges will be stressed. Endless bad shit!

There is some unavoidable math behind the "significantly heavier" EV's.

While the weight of an ICE vehicle is mostly cheap readily available ( and easily recyclable) products such as steel, aluminum and hydrocarbons.

Most of the additional weight that makes an EV so much heavier is comprised of copper and lithium and cobalt and a long list of other expensive difficult/expensive/dirty to obtain, refine and process, and very difficult to recycle materials.

So how will an EV ever be cost competitive with an ICE? Let alone "greener"?

[chuckChuck]

So vehicles with ICE never catch fire? Only EVs? Gasoline is not flammable?