With green energy halt, UCP declares a moratorium on Alberta's reputation

[fjlip]

I bet the cable, install is as costly as the UGLY noisy flashing bird grinder.

[WiltonRanch]

Screw the power lines to the cities. Turn these intermittent sources into hydrogen and then to ammonia. It apparently takes a ton of gas and electricity to make ammonia the hauber-Bosch way and these new solar-wind ones are supposed to be more efficient and less energy intense. How many tonnes of ammonia gets made from a quarter of panels and windmills? The ammonia is made in the place where it’s needed. Less transportation, zero emissions, no need for transmission lines. Kind of a win win. Down the road when hydrogen engines show up there’s a ready fuel source in the country. See there Chuck I can brainstorm and not be an asshole.

[chuckChuck]

Solar panels can go anywhere the sunshines and there is demand for electricity.

Farmers can invest and offset a lot of their power bills.

Utlility sized installations are a lot cheaper per kwh.

And we all know they are intermittent and supplemental to other sources.

But mine cover all our farm usage in an average year. All carbon emission and carbon tax free. Except for manufacture.

And the source of solar energy will never run out. There will be lots of storage options as the transition moves on.

There is a reason why Alberta was seeing massive increases in solar capacity. Economics.

[shtferbrains]

Screw the power lines to the cities. Turn these intermittent sources into hydrogen and then to ammonia. It apparently takes a ton of gas and electricity to make ammonia the hauber-Bosch way and these new solar-wind ones are supposed to be more efficient and less energy intense. How many tonnes of ammonia gets made from a quarter of panels and windmills? The ammonia is made in the place where it’s needed. Less transportation, zero emissions, no need for transmission lines. Kind of a win win. Down the road when hydrogen engines show up there’s a ready fuel source in the country. See there Chuck I can brainstorm and not be an asshole.

This must be the green hydrogen plant in Newfieland we are going to supply Germany with.

$12.5 Billion for 250,000 te annual production from cheap wind.

[shtferbrains]

This is a plant that could easily be build in Western Canada using readily available gas and proven technology producing "blue" ammonia with carbon captured.

$2.9 billion for 1.2 million te yr.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

"Worldwide investment in renewable energy, by some dubious measures, has exceeded investment in fossil fuels in recent years, yet this merely testifies to how inefficient such investments are in producing energy output. Cut to the chase: global CO2 emissions actually grew 12% faster in 2022 than energy consumption did."
So much for the Green revolution saving the world from plant food.

[chuckChuck]

Danny is still trying to justify her interference in the renewable energy market but still hasn't explained why the oil industry gets a free pass on land use and unfunded cleanup issues?

Alberta closed for business? Alberta is turning anti investment and anti jobs jobs that don't align with their oil and gas industry?

Its embarrassing for a pro business, get government out of the way party, that now wants to pick winners and losers in the energy industry? LOL

[Hamloc]

Westbridge Energy is a good example. Promotes itself as a Canadian company. Mytilineous Energy and Metals, a Greek industrial and power company bought out Westbridge Energy this year. They plan to build 5 solar fields in Alberta. 1285 MW rated capacity, most with 100-200 MW batteries. To be built on 5770 acres of “private cultivated land”. On the advertising proposal for the one to be built in Red Willow it states the battery will provide up to 2 hours of additional power. Imagine the size of the battery it would take to make solar viable as a 24 hour power source! Regardless, the panels, batteries, other hardware all imported into Canada. Who benefits? Not Canadians. We take cultivated land out of production and cover it with Chinese solar panels? All so that big companies like Amazon can contract so called green energy and green wash their corporate image.

[blackpowder]

There would be no green economy without government. It's a totally false model as yet. Not comparable to anything I can think of in history.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

There would be no green economy without government. It's a totally false model as yet. Not comparable to anything I can think of in history.

Human sacrifice would be the closest comparison. Both share the following features:

Government sanctioned. Would not occur without huge government mandates.
Destroys productivity.
Done to appease mythical being.
Keeps the populace in fear.
Completely ineffective.
Can not be disproven(every weather event is blamed on climate change), therefore is not scientific at all.
Doesn't negatively affect those in power, only the peasants who pay the ultimate price.
etc.

[shtferbrains]

There would be no green economy without government. It's a totally false model as yet. Not comparable to anything I can think of in history.

Everyone prospers as long as huge money gets fed in at the front end?

Is that not the definition of a Ponzi?

Ponzi's always end poorly for all but the ones that set them up.

[wmoebis]

There would be no green economy without government. It's a totally false model as yet. Not comparable to anything I can think of in history.

Irrigation, Crop Insurance, Cash Advance come to mind.

[blackpowder]

Irrigation, Crop Insurance, Cash Advance come to mind.

Disagree. Government's job is to facilitate market driven industries.
Your examples fall into that category.
The Space Race is the only thing I can think of offhand that's comparable. The difference there was the ability of a robust economy to pay for it. Spinoff technologies then found a willing supply demand market to further growth. (Arms race notwithstanding)
How much is the economy borrowing to push a different technology search that makes everything more expensive not cheaper? The driver being legislation not a market. Decades are a long time to wait for a payback on such a large non real income investment while we simultaneously choke our real revenue industries.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Irrigation, Crop Insurance, Cash Advance come to mind.

While I don't agree with tax dollars going to support these programs, there is a fundamental difference between these and unreliable energy programs.
Irrigation takes an unproductive unreliable asset, a virtual desert, and turns it into a reliable highly productive asset which creates wealth and all of the downstream industries and jobs that go with that.
Crop insurance and cash advance and such programs level out the unpredictable and unreliable cash flow in an industry completely dependent on the ultimate in unreliability, the weather.
The opposite is the case with unreliable energy generation. It displaces predictable reliable cost-effective, paid for, locally sourced energy sources, and replaces them with less reliable higher cost, reliant on foreign sourced components, while destroying productive farmland. It doesn't create any wealth, it destroys wealth. It doesn't improve our competitiveness, it destroys our competitiveness
And the scale of the subsidies compared to agriculture is staggering in comparison to the net contribution to the economy.

[blackpowder]

I simply can't see enough parallels between this electrical revolution and the first one.
What I do see is, we can't get approval to build a two hole outhouse. But we can build factories and mines in Ont and Que.
The next technological leap is coming. But I feel we're creating a century term mortgage for what is today, tulip bulbs.