Where are our values?

[cakadu]

I will be the first to admit that I didn't follow the story too closely about two adopted boys who were literally tortured by their adoptive parents for over 13 years. The appalling conditions and lives that these two poor souls lived will take years if not their entire lifetimes to overcome. Suffice it to say that we wouldn't treat animals this way and yet these two kids were subjected to terrible abuse on a daily and continuing basis. The parents of these two kids got a paultry 9 month jail sentence. Seems to me they should be locked up for 13 years under the same conditions instead of the current penal accommodations.

I have to ask where people were over the years? What about the families of the adoptive parents? Friends? Neighbors? Surely people would have known that these two had kids - why were there no questions asked? Have we become so closed off to those around us that when the front door closes we really have no idea (or inclination) what happens?

It is now prime rodeo season which brings out the animal rights people in a big way. They don't want to see rodeo animals hurt, but we can have these horrors go on with our children? Where are these same people when it comes to humans? There is also some lady running around pretty much nude in Pamploma Spain for the running of the bulls to protest what happens to the bulls. Seems to me that the bulls pretty much win whatever confrontations there are and if people are stupid enough to get in front of a bunch of stampeding animals "just for the fun of it" then they deserve whatever they get.

I have to say that I am dismayed by the way our values seem to be going. My hope is that we don't see it erode in the rural areas to such an extent. How do some of the rest of you feel? There are some truly sad times for us.

[Armin]

I to wonder what has happened to our values when I read stories such as this. I also wonder what happened to values when we put sports and other activities ahead of church on Sundays. I wonder what happened to our values when we think we need to farm thuosands of acres and make ourselves so busy that we don't really time to THINK THROUGH what our values should be. We in the rural areas of this nation have become more like our city cousins in many more ways than we want to admit. I heard of a case in point to bring this home to recently. A piece of land camme up for sale and a person made a ridiculous offer and bought the land. THe reason given was that he really need it but he didn't want the other bidder to have it because he didn't like him.
Have we become the society that the Apostle Pual talks about in Romans Chapters 1-2? It sure sounds like it doesn't it. We in the country don't always know whats going on with neighbours anymore because our neighbours are so far away. Also we are running around to who knows where to make sure our children get to the tournament even if it's hundreds of miles away. We also have two incomes so that this can be acheived. This also due to the rurual communities dying out. But will our children really be better adudlts for this. Will the fact that you have be involved with eveything teach them values.

[cowman]

Our values can only come from within. You can't force people to think a certain way. And the times they are a changing!
Now we could blame the government for a lot of the changes, but in reality, our society supports these changes?
After all no one forces you to go buy a ticket to a hockey game rather than go to church? No one forces you to get divorced or go get an abortion or turn into a fruitcake or shoot some liquid death into your arm, right?
The only person we can save...is us? And I believe that is where we need to concentrate our efforts and not worry to much about where others are going?
We spend a fortune on social services and police. Apparently they aren't getting the job done, but what can you do? Throw more money at the problem?
I would suggest that most of these programs just don't work?
Here is a classic example: Young single mom. The social agencies do everything in their power to convince her to keep that baby, when in fact she is just a baby herself! Then they stick her on welfare and practically guarantee her baby will grow up a loser and her own life will be destroyed.
Then the Alberta government got the brilliant idea that to get welfare she needs an "education" so to continue collecting its off to school! The only problem is they just send her to learn crap about Shakespeare and the like. So she gets her high school diploma and now she is qualified to work at MacDonalds...so its back on welfare!
How about, instead, if they taught her a trade and got her into the oil patch? She could make a decent living and we wouldn't have to import a bunch of foreigners to do the work? How about the government giving these young people a hand up instead of a handout? A citizen who is making a decent living instead of a welfare basket case?
It's pretty hard to be a responsible moral person when you don't know how your going to feed your kid or pay the rent!

[cakadu]

I think the problem goes much deeper than what you are looking at cowman. Armin is quite right about how kids are being raised today. There are two parents working - in many cases - to provide "things" to kids when in reality they don't need or even want those things - what they want is their parents undivided attention for more than 5 minutes. There are those parents that are working very hard to provide their kids with just the basics in life and there is no harm in that. It's all this extra stuff that kids get today.

Don't get me wrong, I think it is far harder to grow up in today's society than it was in my generation because there is a greater gap between the have's and the have not's. Back in my - and many others' day - everyone was pretty much in the same boat, so there wasn't the distinctions that there are today. Do kids really need a brand new car at 16, trips all over the globe, all the toys and doo-dads that are available today or should they get those things because they themselves have earned them?

We are over-scheduling our kids to the point that they don't have time to be kids anymore. This over-scheduling also leads to parent's having a far more hectic life as well. Do kids need to be busy every night of the week?

Yes, once we are adults, we all have choices to make and even kids raised in the best of homes can make poor decisions. The tools to be able to deal with today's realities and make informed, sensible choices lies with parents and the lessons taught to their kids. How can kids learn values when the very people they are supposed to be learning them from are too busy to spend quality time with them.

Muttley and others on this forum have expressed getting off the treadmill and dealing more with their families and the things that truly count in life. Not a car and high insurance premiums at 16.

[cowman]

Linda, times have changed. I don't blame anyone for wanting to have all the goodies, afterall we are told everyday they are essential to a whole and satisfying life? And I really can't blame a women for wanting to get out and have a career...I shudder at the thought of being cooped up raising a bunch of rug rats!
Occasionally I get stuck with my two grandchildren and though I love them dearly,I sure am glad when Momma shows up to reclaim them!
I never really had to do much with my own kids(wife was a stay at home mom) but I did enjoy them a lot when they got older. I just never had much time to spend with them when they were younger...the curse of the workaholic I guess?
You know when I was growing up we either had to take matters into our own hands or do without! If I wanted to play ball or hockey it was up to me to get it done, although I will admit my old man never missed a game I played in...and that continued until I quit both in my late thirties! Well what can I say...I was the only boy in a family of seven!

[cowman]

Linda: If we want rural isues to survive we have to follow a script? You state the semi-liberal approach...I counter with a few radical off the wall ideas and hopefully someone else jumps in...at which time we can both take great delight at roasting them! Get in the game girl!