Alberta...debt free?

[cowman]

Last night on the news Klein announced Alberta is debt free! Well sort of anyway! We still owe money but Ralph has it right in his back pocket or something like that.
So anyway heres Ralph in this huge stetson playing the big Alberta cowboy(I doubt he'd know which end of the cow to feed or which end of the horse to ride!) making this grandstand announcement at the Calgary Stampede! Of course he didn't mention it was his buddies Lougheed and Getty that got us into this little mess in the first place! Alberta was debt free prior to Lougheed.
Then he added now he was going to consult with Albertans on what we'd do with all the extra cash! Well heres a suggestion Ralph...how about give it back to the people who own it? Lets see: about a 4 billion dollar surplus and over $11 billion we sent to Ottawa every year comes to $15 Billion devided up between about 3 million people comes to about $5000 for every man, woman, child in Alberta! So your average family of four could expect a check for $20,000 a year! That sure might help get the bills paid!

[cakadu]

Yes, being debt-free again is a good feeling and we are able to do it because we are sitting on this big bunch of oil, gas and now methane gas.

This debt-free status has come at what cost to all of us? We are seeing more exploration for oil and gas which has long-term environmental effects, we are using up a non-renewable resource which will leave future generations trying to figure out what to do, we have cut services that should never have been cut and spent money in places where it should never have been spent.

Meanwhile we have children in this province that go to bed hungry at night, we are seeing more and more homeless people and our stats on alcoholism, gambling and various other addictions are rising.

Hmmm, yes, it's a good thing we are debt-free.

[cakadu]

Oh yeah and should we mention long, long wait times to get anything done by a specialist and/or needed surgery, hosptial closures and tear-downs...but we're putting money back into build hospitals and open beds so that is a good thing.

We have seniors being cut off from needed services and charged for things that they used to get for free or nominal fees, families who cannot afford to do much with their kids because there is getting to be less and less to do that is actually affordable and the list goes on.

Now, I recognize that we are to be grateful for a lot that we do have in this province and for what we can contribute to the rest of the country.

It is astonishing how the gap between rich and poor continues to grow. Maybe in this "have" province, we should be looking at equalizing things.

[les]

If we give each person $5000 just watch the people move in to Alberta.

[carebear300]

Being and a somewhat informed neighbour of all you people, Things could be a lot worse. You could live in Saskatchewan we only have a 12 Billion dollar debt spread around less than a million people and with the Jimmy Swaggert of the north as premier it will be growing each day. Some day somebody a lot smarter than me will figure out he has been swindling us. So much for my rant. By the way before I forget they can't blame it all on Devine either 9 Billion dollars in accumulated debt was there when he took over.

[gwynplaine]

Some of you may want to re-check your facts. Yes, it is true that a large part of the increased revenues our Glorious Province has incurred is as a result of increased oilpatch exploration and prosperity. However, we have, as a province, increased spending dramatically in the two areas most hotly debated today. In the last 10 years, the Province has more than doubled its spending on Healthcare, and increased spending on Education by a full 50%. We are the only province to do so.

We have, in actuality, been officially debt free since 1997, depending on one's definition of debt. It's curious, to me, that our Premier is doing some political posturing in an expected election year. Take, for example, a massive infusion of $700 million annually into health care (and the sudden declaration we are debt free). More money is most emphatically not the answer to the ills plagueing our fragile healthcare system. This has been shown many times over by the Fraser institute. The answer is responsible use of the system, which will require a drastic overhaul. Which, in a socialist society such as this, is almost unthinkable. Mr Klien did break his promise, to me, when he promised to push on the heathcare act to develop a more sustainable system. Far from it, we have maintained the status quo, and appeased the socialist, unenlightened masses by adding more money to an unsustanable, top heavy government beurocracy. In short, we are not treating the root cause of our deficient system.

I, for one, am proud to be Albertan, regardless of my dislike of our government. Albertans have the lowest taxes in Canada. We are encouraged to succeed. We can be dramatic, and bemoan the woes of children going to bed hungry (I'm just not sure where these children are), and complain about the inefficiency in our health system (Which I won't, I've been offered timely, life saving treatment and surgery on more than one occasion), all the while expecting someone else to feed the starving and clothe the homeless. I, for one, do not want the government (Big Brother, to the Orwell fans out there), providing anything other than roads, police, and pure research funding. Everything else I'm quite confident I can provide for myself. Just let me keep more of MY money.

The starving children, homeless drunks and addicted gamblers? Help them yourself. True Christian caring is one-on-one, not a legislated, impersonal, inefficient government industry that still manages to leave behind the truly needy. Should these programmes fail, and you all get a massive tax cut, I will be, of course, expecting you who defend the poor most vocally to step to their aid.

[cakadu]

This is home to me and I wouldn't want to live anywhere else either. (Well, okay I do, but I'll likely never be able to afford to retire there, so this is home.)

Your statements about top heavy management in both health care and education couldn't be more true. If more of the money trickled down to where it would actually be utilized in the manner it was intended, then there really wouldn't be too many problems. Have you ever looked at the make-up of a school board and all the staff that goes with that? It is unbelievable.

I'm glad that you were able to get the treatment you needed when you needed it. I noticed that your statement said something about life-saving and that is probably the key. Talk to someone who has waited nine months to a year or more for knee surgery and/or hip surgery. The story is totally different then. There is also a difference if you can afford to pay for services that will help you or whether you have to wait for the health care system to look after you.

It's not that there aren't abuses in both education and health care. How many people needlessly go to emergency for every ache and pain or every time one of their kids has a scratch or cough. Now, I don't have anything against parents being vigilant about the safety and well-being of their children, but some do go overboard and that is what taxes the resources, ties up health personnel, etc.

Do you know anyone who has a child with developmental disabilities and/or requires special education classes? Talk to them about how difficult it is to get the required resources. I have a friend who's child is hearing impaired - the hoops and things they have to do to keep him getting a decent education are mind-boggling.

We want our children to become productive members of society and we need to help them achieve those goals in whatever way we can.

There are those that can afford to do it all themselves and I commend them that they are willing to do so. There are those that can't and we need to ensure that they have at least a chance to better themselves.

Last stats I saw revealed that some 12,000 children are not fed properly in this province. Look at how the school lunch programs are subscribed and/or breakfast programs so that kids aren't hungry in class.

Some of what you describe is exactly what I have stated in my post.... the gap between the haves and the have nots is getting bigger.

I'm not for a second advocating a welfare state because that helps no one and becomes a huge burden. What I want to have happen is that we have more of a level playing field.

[WoolyBear]

Has anyone thought to thank the Canadians in the rest of Canada who have contributed to the Alberta economy everytime we've had to add fuel to our vehicles or tractors?

[cakadu]

Good point Woolybear! Made me stop and smile.

[cowman]

Gwyneplaine; Couldn't agree with you more!
Health and education costs are completely out of control and it seems like the government gets a little more control over us every year.
One thing I have to agree with Ralph is his stance on medi-care...it simply isn't sustainable! Health and education take up something like two thirds of the Alberta budget...with no end in site! Of course roads and infrastructure tend to get the short end of the stick because so much of our economy is being diverted into Health and Education.
Surely in this day and age of high tech we don't need to keep building these monstrously expensive schools and hiring babysitters at a cost of ??? $65,000/yr.? Especially when the product they turn out are quite often basically illiterate?
And while we perhaps should thank the rest of Canada for buying our gas and oil, I will note as soon as they can get it cheaper from Venezuala or Saudi Arabia they soon forget about Alberta! While using the transfer money we send them to buy it with. The USA will buy all the gas and oil we can produce and not force us to take a lower price than the market dictates! Remember the NEP? Out and out theft of our resources!

[cakadu]

Just remember that as the population grows, so will the costs of some of these basic services like heath care and education. Look at the population of Calgary -- almost 1 million people. Who gets the bulk of the "new" health money?

Cowman, if as you suggest, we are producing kids that don't know much of anything when they're done school, then doesn't it behoove those that are in charge of the educational curriculum to ensure that it does? Schools are funded in part, based on what courses they can offer kids. Some classes have 10 to 12 students in them because they are options and not everyone likes the same things. Should we have all these options just so that a school can get more money, to pay teachers with classrooms that are less than half full, when the biggest complaint teachers have is class size? Wouldn't that money be better spent on enough teachers to teach the basics and forget all the optional under-utilized classes? Yes, variety is good, but there should be a limit as to how much is a good thing.

As the baby boomers age, this is where we see more and more need for health care because things just wear out after a while, or a tune-up is in order. People are living longer, so they require services for longer.

Don't forget that back when we got on this "fiscal restraint" bandwagon, there were many services that were completely hacked away and I would say that all these recent spending announcements will help us to get where we should have been, had we not had all these cuts in the first place. At first glance it may seem like a lot is getting put back, when I would say that it is merely keeping us where we would have been had things been allowed to evolve as a matter of course.

(By the way, cowman, how am I doing?) ;-)

[GrnAsMoss]

The price of being in debt is onerus. How can anyone say they would rather be in debt than out of it.
What a good example Alberta will set for the rest of Canada. Don't be mislead that we are the only province to have oil resources. The province of B.C. has been trying to develop it's off shore oil reserve off the coast of Prince Rupert since the 60's, and Sask. has a plentyful reserve under the ecologically sensitive sand dunes of the South. Ra Ra Ralph for letting us develop our oil reserves when the price of oil is strong before Koyoto takes effect, and the wind turbines take over. It's because of the oil revenue we got this far, can the other Western provinces do the same?
Next step, education and health care. One thing at a time.

[cakadu]

Grn - how much of the environment have we disturbed - in some cases irreparably - in the name of finding that oil? Let's not just stop at oil though.

There is only something in the neighborhood of 17% of Alberta's forested areas that have been left untouched. We seem to overlook this - or don't even know it - when we point our fingers at other countries for destroying their rain forests in the name of gaining riches and market share.

We see more animal/human tragedies for both animals and humans I might add than we ever have before because we are slowly pushing wildlife to the brink and limits of their habitats and territory.

Those million dollar homes overlooking the mountains and rivers will be quite something when there is no wildlife to observe or our source drinking water has been depleted to the point where paying any amount of money for potable will become the norm because everything needs water to survive.

I believe that it is less than 25% of the resource developed lands are reclaimed. Why? Because the laws governing reclamation are not enforced. Why is that? Because we make too much money from them not being enforced and there isn't the staff to monitor to see if the reclamations are being completed.

But I guess all of it is okay because we can still afford to put gas in those big honkin' trucks, motor homes and SUV's.

I'm very concerned that we aren't thinking beyond today. We are here just borrowing all of this. What are we leaving for future generations?

[cakadu]

Woops, that should be we will pay any amount for potable water.

Consider also that people are against the big businesses in agriculture i.e. Monsanto etc. for wanting GE products. What about all the big businesses that are exploiting the natural resources we have?

I'm not going to get out there with any placards any time soon, but I do think that we need to start taking a look at the long-term effects of what we are doing. We are better educated, more informed and understand more of what we are doing than we have been at any point in history. What is preventing us from using that knowledge to benefit the environment and our future generations?

Well, I guess the province will be out of debt, so why should we care?

[cowman]

Hey Linda...doing good!
The fact is Ralph or Peter or Don didn't invent the oil and gas business in Alberta. Now it is true they lucked into a very good situation with the oil crisis in the early seventies, but in fact they have not gotten a very good deal on royalties compared to just about every other oil producing country in the world? I will note they all seem to be doing very well personally though?
Consider that evil old Iraq? Before the first Gulf War all medi-care and education(including university) were totally free for Iraqi citizens! And don't believe Iraq was some sort of religious fundamentalist state...they were a very progressive socia
list dictatorship!
And meanwhile here in Alberta the Tories continue to rake in the cash and really give nothing back to the actual owners of the resources! The Alberta Advantage? What advantage? We pay a health care premium...Saskatchewan doesn't. We pay outrageous insurance prices...Saskatchewan doesn't! Go to Saskatchewan and buy almost anything. Pay the 7% GST and then pay the PST and what does it cost you...about the exact same price as it does in Alberta! Who benifits?
I will agree entirely with Linda about the forest in Alberta! It is an absolute scandal and the real scandal is the people of Alberta are getting absolutely nothing for their trees...in fact it is costing us tax payers money!
I also agree totally that we need to start realizing water is a very valuable commodity, that we have to stop giving away and squandering! The water, like the gas and oil and the forests, belong to us, the citizens, not the likes of Klein and his gang! Commerce is necessary, but we the people should be benifitting not the political hacks who get their dirty little kickbacks under the table, for letting the pirates and thieves rob us!