Will our government ever support us?

[cowman]

At the recent WTO talks on trade it looks like the Canadian representatives are willing to give up just about everything to cut a deal. Sell the last few things available to protect farmers in the vague hope others might "cut" their subsidies...not eliminate them..but "cut" them! And I don't see where we get anything in return?
If you take away the initial "guaranteed" price for grain why would anyone ever sell to the CWB? Defacto, doesn't this mean there is now no CWB?
The hypocracy of the US and EU at these talks is truly amazing!
The next item is to get rid of supply management in the dairy/poultry industry...so now they would have to compete with a true fair "American" competitor! The fact is this: The American dairyman gets more subsidies than the Canadian dairyman ever does! The Canadian dairyman may get his "subsidy" through the consumer but no way does it add up to the money the American gets from his government!
The Canadian government has a very bad track record of standing up for the primary producers. This is the reason today we find ourselves in this spiral of less and less profit and more and more work! I guess we have to look at the quality of the people we have elected? Shysters, conmen, and a den of thieves?...and again we vote them in?

[cakadu]

This is a good example of the fish parable from the bible. Do we want to keep being given the "fish" or do we want the means to be able to learn how to fish and provide for ourselves and sustain our industry?

[cakadu]

What if this helped us to move away from growing commodities and moved us toward becoming more sustainable over the long haul?

We continue to grow commodities or those things that will not bring us much in the marketplace compared to what others further down the line make. There is a paradigm shift that is slowly happening out there and change comes slowly and it is never easy. There is more than just canola and barley we can grow, especially with the changes in the climate that have been taking place over the last few years. Did you ever think that we would see enough heat units to grow corn in Central Alberta? There are corn varieties being grown that will be put into silage or grazed as winter feed for the cattle.

We should be looking to becoming risk takers instead of being risk averse. Given today's situation, what have we got to loose?

Do you want to be supported or do you want to be self-sufficient and viable?

[kato]

What about those of us who don't even live by the 'lake'?

Any aid needs to be national, not provincial.

[rsomer]

Kato: That was the best laugh I have had in quite a while. Thanks. Very witty.

[bombay_43]

Kato, I don't have too much faith in a national aid package being offered! Quite frankly, I consider where you live to be part of the western provinces, and as I recall, approximately 85% of the beef herds in this country, are in the western provinces! The remaining 15% are in Ontario, Quebec and the Atlantic provinces.

Our federal government doesn't really give a rip about the ecomomy of the Western provinces, and if we don't get aid from our provincial government, I don't see help forthcoming.

Perhaps Cakadu is referring to a type of aid which will see "Farmer Owned" plants up and running sooner. This type of plan would help all producers, no matter what province they reside in.

We need solutions offered, not aid rejected.

[cakadu]

That's part of what I'm referring to Bombay. Nothing ever really grows on barren ground, but given the right amount of moisture, nutrients and care things can flourish.

Right now we are in a system that is targetted primarily at the bigger fish and our policies, infrastructure and mandates all favor those big fish. What we need are more packing plants that have more of a variety to them, more access to facilities that will provide the value-added research and commercialization that we need, leadership that is willing to take risks, skills to close the gaps that exist between small business and growing to a medium or even a large business and the list goes on.

We have facilities like the Leduc Food Processing centre and it is still to this day one of the best kept secrets in Alberta. They can product test, help you design those recipes that you need, provide facilities for you to produce your products until you get to the stage where you can afford the commericial set-up yourself etc. The facility is a federal one, so unless you're geared up to go that route from the get-go, access to it is very difficult.

Growing things and getting them dead isn't the biggest part of the battle. Having the wherewithall to capture the value is in our goods is where the real battles occur.

[cowman]

It is unfortunate that the political system is once again going to take over and we'll have this hodge-podge of programs. I guess you really can't blame Ralph Klein? Maybe instead those weak kneed sisters in Ottawa?
Klein wants a big majority for his last hurrah and lets face it he's dropped the ball quite a few times in the last year or so?
I suspect this "emergency money" will be a cow/calf bailout as well as some major money for increased slaughter capacity...in all likelyhood to Cargill/IBP/XL? And who knows maybe it will be enough to drag the Alberta cattleman along until the border opens? I doubt it has many long term solutions...just enough to get through another year...and another election!
This is NOT a good thing for the western cattle business! Good for the Alberta cattleman but a disaster for Sask./Man.?
Now is the time for our federal government to step up to the plate and bring out some major bucks? Steal Ralphs thunder, so to speak? Will they do it?...I don't know, but if they don't I would suggest that people should finally start to ask themselves what kind of country do we live in? Why do we bother to continue to send our taxes to Ottawa, when they truly couldn't care less what happens to you?

[cowman]

Linda: When I say "support" I don't necessarily mean a government check! I mean rules and laws that encourage primary producers and protect us from predatory corporations and governments!
It is all very well to talk about competition with other countries, but we must consider the fact that we live in a high priced artic country? Can we ever hope to compete with a country like New Zealand or Brazil? Well no we can't, for the simple reason while we are shaking and shivering for 7 months of the year they are growing everything under the sun!
And really why would we even want to compete? And compete for what? Are we competing for their markets(coals to Newcastle?)? No, we are competing for OUR markets! Let them keep their markets and we'll keep ours!
The times are a changing, it is true, and now it seems you have to do it all if you are to succeed in agriculture, in this country. The only problem is this: How does anyone find the time? And if you are producing the base product, processing it, marketing it...which part suffers? Or maybe they all do?
Commodity production shouldn't be a dirty word! But we do need a system in place that rewards all the players fairly instead of how it is now with the end players reaping huge profits and the peasants getting little?
I would suggest we already have a "value chain" in place in the beef business? Safeway and Cargill reap the rewards while the feeder and cow/calf producer reap the sorrow? A bit of simple legislation would go a long ways to making things more equitable? Why do we have a government at all if not to bring us justice and fairness? Isn't that the duty of the king?
The fact is this: When the rewards to the peasants become so poor that they can't continue to operate...they quit! That has always been the case throughout history(especially if they have options)? I would suggest to you that, that is what has been happening the last thirty years or so? Slowly but surely, we are quitting?

[gwynplaine]

Strange as it may be to believe, there are profitable Canadian Ag vetures out there. Producers who are profitable without supply managment, the Wheat Board, or legislation aimed at restricting trade. I'd say let's look at what they are doing right, before we get even more government involvment to slow everything down, and further decrease efficiency. Why do peple believe that even more beaurocracy will improve their lot? It will create even more civil servants and departments that exist only to self-perpetuate.

Does this mean the end of the family farm? Of course not. A great majority of the successful operations I'm aquainted with are single, family-run businesses. It does, however, mean re-structuring and re-evaluating thinking. It may be unfortunate that it is harder and harder for some operations to survive, but that is how every other BUSINESS operates. Why should the Taxpayers give money to support unprofitable business practices?

I know! Why don't we ALL work for the government! Then we can all starve together, and blame globalization and normalizing of trade for the profits that the evil, mindless, faceless corporations are raking in. Maybe we can pass some more laws to discourage productivity.

[carebear300]

Yes I agree we should get rid of all government control and regulation. As long as it is the same for everybody. That means that when Korea wants to dump steel into Canada at half the cost of its production we will stand by and let our own industried all go bankrkupt because they can't compete. That also means that if somebody else can produce a suitable automobile and is willing to ship it into Canada at a loss we will stand by and watch our own automobile industry go down the tubes. And at the same time lets do away with all our social programs because they cost money and somebody else in this world doesn't have that added cost so we will do this to compete. Yep if you want survival of the fittest lets get at her but if that is the case everybody in this country has to suffer the consequences not just the farmer!!!! I have had it up to here with asll this talk of becoming more efficient, all that it has meant to agriculture is that the world wide mega corporations have made more money but if we as a society are all willing to play by these rules so be it. God help us all because we haven't learned anything in the last five hundred years.

[ALICIA]

This must be on some of the story on the National tonight. Of course you only get half of want is going on. But they are talking about a masive kill again, but only as a last resort. If they call for a massive kill are they planing on paying you guys for the cows that are killed or is this a volitary thing.

[wilagro]

Good post Carebear...I pretty well feel as you do.
The last line of your post says it all. In Canada, we haven't learned much except to knuckle under to the WTO and show how stupid that we can be. They have been trying to get rid of our CWB for years as they see it as a threat to THEIR interests. From what I read, the USA through the WTO is doing most of the bitching.
I do not place much trust in OUR negotiators either, they seem awfully naive.

[cowman]

There are "hints" that finally they might be considering a cull but even last week Shirley McClellan stated firmly "no mass cull"?
The fact is if they had killed off a million cows last year, we wouldn't be in such a mess? But then it wouldn't have looked very good to the public? Or at least the urbanites, who have no clue of the realities of the livestock business?
Maybe it is time that they were drug into reality? Yes the porkchop/steak you are eating came from an animal that was shot in the head!
If the government finally realizes that 700 million dollars is actually a pretty cheap solution to our oversupply problem, it will be interesting to see how they will spin that story? I just hope they get their act together and start digging the pits before the ground gets froze too hard! Although in Alberta they might have a tough time finding enough hoes and cats as they are all busy as bees making oil leases!

[cowman]

Have to agree with Carebear and Wilagro on this one!
Gywnneplain; I was never advocating more government workers, or more taxpayer dollars...just laws that protect us from unfair predatory countries and corporations?
The popular theory is that globalism is a good thing? For who? For the big corporations for sure? But how about the average Joe? Globalism means one thing, and one thing alone...the lowest common denominator? So that is good right? Cheaper consumer goods, less taxes right?
The only problem is this. How are you going to compete with the guy who doesn't have to spend a fortune just trying to keep from freezing? How are you going to compete with the guy who has absolutely no environmental costs, no social costs, no labor laws to adhere to, no medical costs, no infrastructure costs?
Whether we like it or not our country has evolved into a high cost state where we have fundamental values that most Canadians support? Do we chuck the whole thing in the garbage and enter the good old dog eat dog world?
The reality is this: When we lose the system we have in place, it won't just be the factory worker or the farmer who has to live like the third world peasant, it will be the whole Canadian population...including that well educated/well paid professional!