I wonder what would happen?

[cowman]

If the federal government decided to just say NO to all agricultural subsides? Scrapped the Ag department and told all the farmers to either sink or swim?
No more crop insurance, no more fuel rebates, no more sweet heart tax deals, no more supply mangement or CWB?
Would it be a catastrophy? It seems farming has become sort of a joke anyway that is becoming a spiral down the drain?
And what if they took this whole concept a little further and decided to run the whole shooting match this way?
Scrap just about everything they do? Maybe keep national defence and trade and commerce? Get out of the culture business, the Indian business, the environmental business, the medical and education business? Let the provinces run their own show...or better yet, the municipalities?
I suspect things would settle down after a while and work quite well? We just wouldn't have so many parasites sucking on our life blood.

[carebear300]

Well said cowman!!!!!!! I think you are on the right track this time, getting rid of all these parasites has to be a good thing, we can't afford to pay them all.

[cowman]

Yes Carebear the darned beuracracies are just becoming too big! And the worst part is because they aren't really doing anything they have to come up with grand schemes to look busy! These various schemes usually mean one thing for guys like you and me! More paperwork, more stupid rules and a lot more money!
Even the municipalities are not immune to this. My own county is just over run with employees thinking up ways to make your life more difficult! They privatized all the real work(plows,graders, gravel hauling etc.) and after three years they have more people "working" there than before they let the 38 real workers go! Why even the secretaries have secretaries!

[tower]

Oh I don't know, why bother to keep defense, trade, and commerce? what's special about them? I'm sure that we can all be responsible for ourselves, our own energy, environment, roads, health care, etc. surely we can handle defense and international trade.

[tower]

cowman the verdict is still out on whether municipalities save one red cent by contracting out road maintenance. Contractors are in the business of making money, some municipalities have found that owning their own equipment and having it operated by their own staff saves money in the long run.
With the growth of the municipalities in the Edmonton/Calgary corridor, I would imagine that a lot of the folks you refer to are working in the Planning and Development department.

[cowman]

Well Emerald, my county says privatization really worked in a big way, so who knows? They claim they save, like Millions every year, although I do believe the service has gone down hill?
I'm not sure if all those extra bodies floating around the office are planners or not. It seems strange to me you'd need so many extra people over a three year period?
I think the municipality is waiting until after the election to bring out their "land use policy". From what I've heard of it, it is going to basically go against what all the public meetings told them very clearly...keep your hands off "first parcel out" and some other developement/zoning issues. Basically the new plan is to restrict developement...or at least until the lawyers and speculators can get the land bought up cheap!
There is already one group being formed that is going to challenge the whole thing in court. I guess they don't like the idea of losing around one third of their property value so some "planner" can feel touchy/feely about saving the rural areas for the dumb peasants.

[dsinclair]

Well, I don't know about all of this, getting rid of government departments. We live in probably the most screwed up county in the province, but I guess I am a traditionalist. We need someone at the helm. If a person is not happy about what is going on then it is his right and I believe duty to get in there and make some noise. That is what the democratic system is all about! I know that sounds lame, but often it's easier to complain than to actually get involved and try to do something.

[cakadu]

Right you are. It's okay to point out the faults/problems/concerns, however, come with potential solutions too. I've learned that it is far easier to be positive than to be negative.

Also it's hard to judge whether something was the best decision or not if you don't have all of the information that was available to the decision makers. Oftentimes, there is a lot more than meets the eye.

As for what would happen, I hope we never have to find out.

[cakadu]

The input that really counts from all citizens is the message they send on Monday when they mark their ballot.
I honestly feel that it should not only be the right but the duty of residents to vote in a municipal election. The representatives that are elected are the closest to the people, and the only elected representatives that do not follow party lines.
As far as planning goes, Municipalities are bound by the Municipal Government Act to seek Public input into statuatory documents such as Land Use By-Laws and Municipal Development Plans. If the phylosophy of the council is geared toward changing the 'road-maps' of their municipality it may because the municipality is undergoing extreme development pressures and significant increase in population.
I always encourage people who have concerns to speak not only to their councillor, but to sit down with administration of the various departments within their jurisdiction and get their questions answered.

[cowman]

I believe the "town hall" meetings on land use showed an overwhelming desire to NOT change the accepted practice of "first out parcel", however the first draft out of the land use policy clearly takes that option away from many landowners in the county. So what can you do? My councillor does not agree with this change...or at least is smart enough to not support it publicly!
Here you have a tyranny of the beuracracy! Now maybe they have the support of a vocal minority or maybe when the whole thing is decided they have the backing of a silent majority!
Doesn't really matter in my opinion and I'll tell you why I say that...
As individuals we have rights? One of the most fundamental rights is the right to own and enjoy our property? I know the old commies in Ottawa didn't enshrine that right in our constitution, but without that fundamental right, all the other "rights" mean absolutely nothing?...which is probably exactly why they excluded it!
Now I am not saying this means government can't expropriate are make changes for the benifit of the majority! They can, but there MUST be fair and just compensation!
So what can you do if your rights are being trampled on? How can you get justice? ...Well one way is take the thieves to court? I am loosely involved with this group, and one of the most vocal is a very, very competent lawyer! He thinks we can take them on and win! This is the only real avenue available.
I find it absolutely a joke when these people stand up and rant on about saving farmland...while the city of Red Deer marches to the east, eating up some of the very best land in the province!

[cowman]

a fact oflife is that usually what someone chooses to do on their own property will affect someone else. EG: the right of an individual to run a business or confined feeding operation on their own farm will likely result in questions and concerns from neighbours.
First parcel out is usually a given, however, the municipality must take into consideration how that first parcel out will affect the rest of the neighbourhood.
A scenario in my own community had the operator himself subdivide a first parcel out of a quarter of land, then build a cattle feeding operation on the rest....when he attempted to obtain a county permit ( before the Agricultural Operations Practices Act became legislation and the NRCB became responsible for approving these operations ) the residence on the acreage that he had subdivided was within the minimum distance separation from the feedlot and he could not obtain a permit. Lucky for him that the for sale sign was still up at the acreage so he made the decision to keep it, rent the house out and amalagamate the acreage back into the quarter of land.
Expensive lesson, but it does show how the first parcel out can sometimes impact another agricultural operation.
Multi parcel subdivisions are another matter. The developer must have a hydrogeological study done if more than 6 parcels are involved, to ensure adequate water for exising use.
Locating these multi-lot subdivisions near hamlets where they can tie into municipal water and sewer makes the most sense, then there is no concern for sewage disposal, and numerous water wells drilled into one aquifer.

[dsinclair]

To add to this, you are responsible for everything that leaves your property. For example, should you spray and the spray drift onto your neighbor's alfalfa, you are liable. Or if you spread manure and the runoff gets into your neighbor's dugout, again, you are liable. So you may do with your property what you will, but you have to take the surrounding land and any effect your actions might have on your neighbor into consideration.

[tojo]

I have been in this game for a long time & have noticed that most subsidies etc are lobbied for by farmers and farm organizations to try and put our farmers on an equal footing with those highly susbidizied farmers in the USA and EUROPE. I do agree that things do get out of hand with gov't employees setting up the pyramid effect to create paperwork to justify their jobs and those they created for their departments to justify their existance. I also have seen free entreprisers who scramble to get off on their own .... these tend to be the ones who come crawling back for gov't assistance when things go bad for them....usually in front of the protest line. In the perfect 'utopia' what you say makes sense ...... we are far from the perfect world and like you say things are badly screwed up. We, in Canada, are the best and most efficient farmers in the world - producing quality products for our consumers. Most of the problems we encountered in the recent past have to do with crises that are beyond our control at the farm gate ... weather abnormalities, closed borders to our products ... whether it be beef (BSE), potatoes (plant viruses), dairy (export restrictions via NAFTA), hogs, grain & the list goes on.....

[tower]

I don't think that the presence of a beaurocracy is an indication of a political leaning one way or the other. Some of the biggest pyramids in the world right now are corporations with their fingers in every pie from farm to restaurant, from copper mine to electricity retailer, and each of the employees and employers is busy trying to get the plum in each pie.

Maybe that wouldn't be bad, or even onerous, but like everyone they are trying to get as much as possible for as little effort as possible, and protect their positions at the same time. Time for a look at what it means not to have another continent to exploit.