Manitoba school tax?

[cowman]

I see the Manitoba government is giving farmland a rebate of 33% on the school tax portion of their taxes! They say it is due to the hard economic times down on the farm.
I wonder how come Manitoba can do this? As well as come up with $11 million for a packing plant? I thought they were pretty well broke?
And meanwhile here in Alberta, we see no rebate on our farmland school taxes? And I haven't heard our government rolling out the money tree for any new packing plants? Gee, I thought we had more money than we know what to do with?
Maybe Manitoba and Alberta need to exchange governments for awhile?

[farmers_son]

cowman, for many years I have been of the opinion that Education Tax should not be tied to assessment. The Alberta Association of Municipalities and Counties lobbied the Province to remove the education tax from property and deal with it in some other fair and equitable way. Many rural municipalities have refunded the farm land portion of taxes since BSE, however the education tax remains in place.
It is certainly not a fair way to fund education in my view. Someone living in a very modest home with six kids using the education system pays far less than someone living in a higher end dwelling with no kids in the system. Before anyone gets upset with that comment, I want to assure you that I feel we all benefit by educating our young people and we all should pay into the system, but what we pay should not be based on assessment.

[cakadu]

Here, here emrald. I couldn't agree more that I feel we should pay something to educate the youth and leaders of tomorrow. We have no children, yet over half of the taxes we pay go to education. I believe that we should pay something, but should it be as much as the person with 4 kids in school? Or should seniors pay as much for education tax when their children are done and it is now their grandchildren or even great-grandchildren that are going to school?

If we didn't tie it to the assessment, what other things could we do? I'm certain that there are plenty of ideas out there.

What about the differences in funding for rural versus urban schools? There are times when rural kids are at a disadvantage and I'm of the belief that all kids should have the same chances and opportunities, particularly if we want to avoid the brain drain that seems to be escalating or even having younger people leave areas because the advantages and opportunities are better elsewhere. An example might be the high speed internet versus dial-up that many rural communities are faced with. Even if you hook it to the satellite dish, you can only download fast - the technology isn't quite there yet to be able to upload at a high speed.

How are education taxes handled elsewhere ? Grassfarmer or ianben, what is it like over in the U.K.?

[cakadu]

The education tax rate is set by the province, and municipalities both rural and urban are charged with collecting it. Municipalities may levy a fee on the tax bill for collecting education tax so the property owner gets taxed on collecting the tax !!!
I don't think that seniors should be exempt from education tax by virtue of being a senior, however I do think that those with incomes that are considered 'low income' should be exempt. There is a real push to keep seniors in their own homes as long as possible, and bring services to them so that they may ' age in place', taking the education tax off property would give seniors a bit more disposable income to bring services to them and allow them to remain in their own homes.
I agree that rural students, particularily those in remote areas do not have the same educational opportunities as those in urban centres. More and more rural parents are opting for home schooling, which does away with the long bus rides to and from school, however, it does mean that those children don't have the same opportunities to liasion with their counterparts during their school years.

The lobby to remove the education portion of the property tax has got to come from the grass roots, and also those who do lobby for this, have got to realize that education funding has to come from somewhere. Are we better with the status quo or some form of sales tax to fund education ?
I personally think that the entire education system needs to be revamped. Are all the subjects taught in schools necessary ?? Are School Divisions necessary or should the province fund per student and dictate what courses are mandatory ?
I am certainly not an expert on this matter as I don't have kids in school.

[grassfarmer]

Cakadu, Sorry I don't visit this side too often, in the UK school taxes are paid out of general taxation - ie they are not tied to the land. I suppose the Canadian system is a relic of your past with small schools being built in every township and paid for by the farmland tax.

[cakadu]

Grassfarmer, I take it then that there isn't a separate line item in your personal taxes for specifically for a school tax? Seems to me that our tax levels here in Canada are higher than in a lot of countries, what are they in the U.K.?

Emrald, I agree with you that we need to revamp the entire school system because it has become far too top heavy with management, which is where an awful lot of the funds get used up, instead of making it to where they really need to go, which is in the classrooms and for the children.

The way I understand the schools are funded, particularly the high schools etc., is that the more diversity of topics that are taught as options, the more funding a school gets. Needless to say then, that when a school offers these classes that are not filled, it is doing so in order to get more funding. Certainly we want to see the childrens education well rounded and exposure to more than just the "three R's", but I think there needs to be a limit when there are 10 kids in some of the classes and other classes are filled to capacity and then some.

I've often wondered about home schooling. I know that there is a cirriculum and things that they follow, but wouldn't it presume that the teacher needs to know more than the student in order to have the student learning the most that he/she can?

As those over 65 control as much as 2/3 of the assets, maybe those that can afford to pay do so on the basis that the rest of us pay - under a new funding system.

Last week on the news, I believe it was Calgary teachers, set out the number of hours per week that they wanted for classroom related activities - 24 hours a week for being in the classroom and 6 hours per week for preparation. There wasn't any mention for any other type of work, so I don't know if they want a 30 hour work week or not. Wouldn't we all?

[cakadu]

home schooling involves more than just the parents supervising the education of the children. I have a family member being home schooled, and she has a tutor two half days per week, as well as takes distance learning classes from the local library and engages in at least one sports activity ( in her case, swimming ) during the school week. I don't know if the tutor is funded by the education system or paid for by her parents. I think that parents are expected to volunteer a certain number of hours in the public system in some areas. This is great if the parents can combine volunteering with their jobs, but for families where both parents work it sometimes poses a problem. In my view the education system in Alberta is no different that Health Care. Top heavy,ample funding but not enough getting to the people it is really intended for.
I think that our Provincial government needs to bite the bullet and revamp both education and health care, using the same dollars and trimming the fat from both systems.
There seems to be a huge inequity in infrastructure in schools across the province. Some areas have old schools that are substandard to say the least, and in other areas newer schools are being closed due to lack of enrollment.
In some areas school boards have entered into the infamous P3 projects that don't make a lot of sense. In one area that I know of the plan is to build a combination junior high, separate school and indoor soccer field, in an area of the community that already is under pressure for parking, traffic etc.
The majority of the parents are not in agreement with this, the real push for the project came from the local urban centre. They have apparently borrowed millions to partner with the project, while the rural county has not.The reasoning behind it is that if this project does not go ahead, the community will NOT get a much needed new junior high at this time !!!!
Two local members of the school board voted against the project but that doesn't seem to matter.
Again, this debt will be paid off by a partnership of the province, school board and community, so obviously the community portion will have to come from education tax, which is based on assessment !!!

[Yusishen]

Just to clarify, the rebate is on the tax applied to land only. Homes and production buildings are still fully taxed. Now, I don't have an argument with paying school taxes on my home value (since that's what people in town do) but I'm sure people with big barns will question the inclusion of production buildings.

An average quarter section for us has $300 in school taxes so we will get $100 back this year ($150 reduction next year). We only own about 8 quarters (and rent the remainder for a total of about 2500 acres) so our rebate will be $800. Gee, now there's something to get excited about.

A recent KAP newsletter claimed that farmers were using 28% (or some similar figure) of their net income to pay education taxes. Even if I use the full education rate on those 8 quarters and add in the taxes for the bins, shop and even the two houses, I don't get close on a decent year.

Don't get me wrong here. I'm all for finding a different way to fund education that is based more on income levels and less on assessed value of property. However, I really have a problem with the way the government is billing this as big cash infusion to farmers. Much of it will go to absentee landowners who probably won't lower rents (and at $100 per quarter, the impact on my rent is negligble anyway).

[Yusishen]

There is no tax on farm buildings in Alberta. The Province had a Farmland Assessment Review Committee travelling the province garnering input from various sectors, including municipalities a few years ago. The resulting report seemed to recommend a taxation system favoring a 'footprint'concept meaning that taxation was based on the assessment of the area utilized for income generation. EG: feedlot pens, hog barns, dairy barns etc. The recommendation did not meet with any enthusiastic response across the province so I assume that it is on the shelf gathering dust.