A sad day

[Cattleman]

I am sure everyone heard about the 4 cops that we all lost in Alberta. I just wonder, how many other people that are "known to police" are also out there and capable of the same thing. What can we do with them to prevent this? Can't lock them all up or monitor them...that would cost too much. The challenges we in society have to deal with.
I still am curious though, how he got all four of them in quonset, and was still able to go after the next ones that came along.
We certainly don't want this to happen again.

[WoolyBear]

According to reports in the Edmonton Journal the community where he lived knew he was a violent person and even his own father referred to him as a devil. I doubt if it will ever be known exactly what happened but I am sure there are grow ops and chop shops all over this province. Rural Alberta is a great place to start these things because most people mind their own business in rural areas, and don't ask questions.
I know of a fellow that went to check why his creek didn't have any water in it and stumbled onto a grow up under construction, backhoe there damming the creek and stolen generators etc. This was in a rural area on a piece of land with no road access, so unless someone happened on the place, no-one but the criminal element would have known it existed.
These people that are involved in this kind of activity aren't shop lifters, they are big time criminals.

[cowman]

A totally senseless tradgedy. Four young men wasted for no good reason.
This really isn't about grow ops at all...the guy was a nut and the cops were there to investigate a chop shop.
Lets face it real criminals are growing dope for the money and they figure getting caught now and then is just the cost of doing business? They sure aren't stupid enough to kill a cop! A couple of years in the can for the chance to make millions makes sense but 25 years in jail, doesn't? This guy was obviously crazy?
Time to get it legalized and regulated. Take the profit away from the gangsters and stop all the violence. The same sort of violence happened with alcohol when it was illegal? As long as a sizable portion of the population want MJ you will always have somebody willing to supply that need?
In reality MJ is a fairly harmless drug? I mean it is just a plant right? How much damage does it do to society compared to alcohol?
The Liberal party is moving towards legalization anyway...who knows how long that might take? If it was legalized tommorrow we could end a lot of the violence and criminal activity that goes into producing this crop? Don't forget...this is the number ONE agriculture crop in the country!

[rookie]

Well my sympathies are out thee to to those for this loss. Very sad.

But cowman, I have to disagree, if pot gets legalized, the problem gets bigger.
the thugs will put you out of business for competing, everyone will try to get in on it, everyone will smoke it who may have been hesitant before, and when you are driving home, the on coming semi driver may be smoking it.

It is a stepping stone drug that will fry some brain cell after time.

We are trying to regulate smokers to quit...

It was a sad loss but it will be just as sad if some tougher penalties for crime don't come out of this.

[cropduster]

Come on Cowman......you are going to give in to that crap!!!I think it`s the LIBERAL legal system that allowed this type of person to be manifested within our society. This is only the visible tip of an iceberg(no pun intended). I believe the majority of Albertans if not Canadians have HIGHER moral standards than that!!It`s time guys like cementhead(Sol Gen) said we`ve had enough of this LIBERAl crap and DID something about this federal issue!This legal system needs some TEETH put in it!SORRY to hear you wouldn`t stand for THAT!

[les]

I agree with cowman and we should legalize prostitution too.Think of the tax money we will generate for the country,and the economy boost we will have.

[wmoebis]

It is a VERY sad day
Iwonder if the gun used was registered.
I wonder if the money spent on gun registry could have better equipt our police or the money in the sponsorship scandle? If mj was legalized it would just put pressure on other drugs to be produced illegally so we would have to legalize all drugs. Then could we afford to control it?
Could you legalize beer but not rye?
Nothing is going to happen quick lets get back to a stronger rural crime watch type system. Help protect ourselves and our country. I don't want to fight a war in Iraq but I will at home to protect me and mime.

[Cattleman]

The legalization question is a tough one. I think it is going to be pretty tough, to step up our control of the marijuana industry, sure we will catch some people but the big ones will most likely just become more sophisticated, and probably more dangerous??
The underground economy is growing extremely fast, and I was reading that the mj industry in BC is worth 7 billion!! That would be a huge boost to the economy to capture all this as part of the tax system, through industries and jobs, etc. We could look at systems that have worked such as in Holland.
One last thought, is, will it really increase the amount of smoking of mj? It may slightly, but to tell you the truth, in Canada today, if you want to smoke it, it is very easy to get access to. We can talk about it leading to more drugs if legalized, but we could also go in the other direction and decide that alcohol should be criminalized as well because of the problems it causes.....but I don't want to go there.

[cowman]

cropduster: I'm sorry to break the news to you but the war on drugs isn't working in the USA either(not exactly legal there?)? Yea it's a dirty situation but what are you going to do? Have you seen the polls on what your average Canadian thinks? Consider the fact that the baby boomers know perfectly well what pot is all about...been there done that? The fact is most Canadians do not consider MJ a serious threat...period!
It is not a gateway drug...period!
I do agree that criminals are going to seek money wherever they can find it and if they legalized MJ the criminal element would probably move into the real "baddies" like crystal meth or crack.
This world is changing and you either learn to deal with it and evolve or you become a dinosaur and become extinct? Neither you or me are ever going to legislate morality. Consider maybe "harm reduction?"
The sad part of this whole fiasco is it has nothing whatsoever to do with MJ...the guy was a pyscho who wanted to take down some cops! I suspect we are getting a lot of "spin" about this whole deal?
And whether you like it or not MJ puts some major dollars into the economy of Canada! $7 billion in BC? A reported $8 billion into Ontario?
Take a trip out to the Okanagan and see all the old hippies driving Hummers and Porsches and tell me there isn't any money to be made? And who knows in ten years you might be growing a perfectly "legal" crop and making a decent living(without subsidies!) instead of growing wheat that nobody wants!

[cakadu]

If you watch programs like 20/20, Dateline etc., they have all done shows on how the war on drugs is NOT working and in fact it has been made a lot worse since they declared the war on drugs. The element involved gets more sophisticated in how it is transported, grown, distributed etc. and it is rarely the "big fish" that gets caught. Besides, you go to jail for a few years - you're out with all the goodies and life goes on for you.

Ever see the movie "Blow?" That was about how one guy tried to be decent in drugs. The best line from that show was "I went into jail with a Bachelors in Marijuana - I came out with a PhD in cocaine."

There are far more serious drugs out there - like crystal meth - which can actually kill you in a matter of months. Hey, if Keith Richards won't do it, then that should tell you something.

It is indeed a horrible and completely unnecessary tragedy and my thoughts and prayers go out to the families of the victims and the people in the surrounding area.

It makes one stop and pause to think about how children in the same family, with the same upbringing can turn out so different. One has to think about the family of the perpetrator as well. It must be most difficult for them too.

[cakadu]

The US is already raising concern about the lax drug laws in Canada, so if the stuff gets legalized I guess that will be one more reason to stop most everything at the border.
The justice system, not drugs are likely the cause of this horrible tragedy. When someone has done time for sexual abuse, and has shot at people, threatened people and terrorized his community for years, and is still out walking around owning lord knows how many guns, just how much protection do the RCMP or society have.
The guy should have been locked up for good years ago by the sound of it....but of course our justice system pats the criminal on the wrist and turns them loose.
We look to police officers to protect citizens, but don't give them the tools they need. I am not referring to arms and protective gear, but a judicial system with some clout.

[cakadu]

There are definitely more questions than answers at this point and the public may never hear all of the facts of the case. One of the things I wonder about is how he managed to get all 4 officers in a position to be able to shoot at all of them.

What would happen if we adopted a 3 strikes perspective here in Canada? Would it have helped in this case? Technicalities are what help to get repeat offenders off - that and lawyers that know loop holes.

I don't know that the laws in the US are doing much to deter the drug trade either. What would happen if we adopted the system that countries like Malaysia have where "Da Da" is death? You know what the penalty is up front - work in the drug business and you know the risk you are taking.

[blackjack]

...what a country we live in...tell our teenage kids not to smoke cigs...but its OK to smoke MJ...goverment make laws so the gun trade goes underground...cities filling up with gangs...rural areas more and more becoming homes to these growups...

...heard an Edmonton policeman say it is basically the system ...we arrest them...the judge slaps there wrist...so in my opinion the politicians and lawyers are the problem...crime is obviously big business for the criminals and the lawyers...so nothing will change because we all know who run the country...lawyers and judges...

[gmj]

Lawyers are Politicians; and Politicians are Lawyers who make the Laws we cannot live with

[cowman]

Well the word is there were twenty plants...not exactly a big multi-million grow op? I wonder how come there haven't been any pictures of cops packing out garbage bags full of dope or stories of how many millions of dollars the plants were worth? Anne McClellan was quick to condemn this "organized criminal grow Op" as the reason for this tradgedy! Annie...show us the plants!
I wonder why? Maybe to deflect the real truth...that the senior RCMP staff screwed up big time and got these four officers killed? If they spotted a grow op why didn't they call in the "green Team"? Why did they call in the Auto theft unit?
There are a lot of questions unanswered here? On the first news reports it was reported that a SWAT sharpshooter shot the killer. Later they reported, no he killed himself, and now it is, we don't know for sure who killed him? Something just doesn't add up here?
Why would the RCMP send four inexperienced officers into a situation where they knew the individual was totally irrational and highly violent? He had stated many times he hated cops and would gladly kill them.
Is there a solution? Should we lock up more people? If so who is going to pay? Do we really have the resources to bust all these grow ops(20,000 in BC alone according to the RCMP)? Can we afford as a nation to lock up everybody who smokes dope? I believe a national poll pegged that number at about 37% of the population...that works out to around 10 million people who have broken this law? I wonder how many of our MPs, MLAs, mayors, doctors, teachers, lawyers, judges would have qualified for jail if we had those kind of draconian laws?
The fact of the matter is this "problem" is out of control and isn't going to improve unless we face reality? MJ in Canada is reality and the only way to fix the problem is to legalize and regulate it.