The End of Suburbia

[Deb]

Did any of you see the show on Vision TV last night called The End of Suburbia?

The world has peaked in oil and gas production. What is left will be harder and more expensive to extract and alternative forms of energy won't fill the gap once the fossil fuels are gone.

Imagine agriculture without fossil fuel. Imagine the commuters in the suburbs - suburbs will become ghost towns unless they change themselves to be self-contained with work, food sources, etc. right there. Downtowns are be revilatized in some areas of the States, so that people can walk where they need to go.

Everything from farming, industry, food and human transportation to writing e-mails will change drastically. One scientist said this will happen by 2010. Others say sooner, others say later but no later than say 2020 or like the optomists, 2050. The people who have made these predictions are leaders in the field of energy research. Regardless, our children and grandchildren will be in for a lot of heartache.

If I were younger, I'd start raising draft horses and carriage horses and start selling the most efficient wood burning stoves on the market. None of this will help the world cope, but may help my community a little.

I think we should slow the removal of fossil fuel leaving Alberta.

[whiteface]

that will never happen when fossil fuel drives the economy of this Province.
In many areas the pockets of sweet gas are non existent, hence the drilling for both sour oil and gas in developed areas where it affects people, and communities.

[Deb]

So do you think that we shouldn't even TRY to explain to people that our energy production and use is unsustainable? You say "it won't happen". Does this mean that we should all just carry on in denial and let our descendents worry about where they'll get their energy supply from? Is it modern white man's destiny to use everything up and look for something eles to use up and so on, until it is all gone and civilization collapses? The native people thought carefully about what affect their choices had on each subsequent generation for seven generations down the line. We don't even seem to think of the welfare of our own grandchildren in this narcissistic era.

Unless I've got it all wrong and we are supposed to act like this. After all, the fox doesn't say to itself, "Well there are a lot of rabbits now so we could have lots of kits but by the time they grow up the rabbit population will be down so we better think ahead and only have a few offspring." Foxes, etc. will just reproduce like crazy according to the CURRENT supply of goods. What do you think?

[Deb]

Gee, we have had such interesting discussions on here for ages without anyone attacking an opinion. I was just stating an obvious fact. I would suggest that you head down to 5th Avenue in Calgary around 4:00 PM any day of the week and ask any of the folks driving the huge SUV's home from their industry jobs whether they want to drive teams and wagons and live without the comforts that they have become accustomed to.

I for one, don't want to have to hitch up a team of mules to head out to work or heaven forbid to take the grandkids to West Edmonton Mall on a chilly Sunday in January.Would much rather take the Durango, thank you very much !!!!

[Deb]

Of course they wouldn't want to, nobody would. But they might be forced to. If they knew what was coming would they care enough to change their minds? Would they buy a hybrid car, or ride a bike to work, or find other ways to reduce their consumption of energy?

I'm not attacking your opinion, I'm just trying to find out how to motivate society or SUV drivers to DO something about slowing the end of oil. If they care at all about the future of their children, they would try.

[Deb]

Senator Tommy Banks was on the radio one morning just after a major blizzard suggesting that we should ride our bikes to work.
Now, where I live the county sometimes doesn't get the gravel roads snowplowed for a week after a major snow fall, so riding a bike really isn't what I fancy. I don't know enough about hybrid cars to know how well they would plow the snow on the gravel roads that haven't been plowed when I need to get somewhere, like to work .
I think that more and more urban residents are riding the city transit system, bikes etc. not only to conserve fossil fuel but because they find the cost of it is making driving to work prohibitive.
I used to drive a small car, had the pickup when I needed a 4x4, but with the traffic on the highways and the winter driving that I am required to do, I opted for a heavier vehicle that will get me through almost any kind of weather. Not because I like to drive a big gas guzzling vehicle, but because for the vehicle requirements I have at this point, it was the most sensible choice for me.

[cowman]

You see emerald your problems could all be solved if you just moved into the city and become another little robot in the concrete jungle? Oh, and maybe you should join the NDP, just to be on the safe side!LOL
Eventually the oil age will end...but I suspect we have several years to go yet? The technology is there to live without oil...just doesn't make any economic sense right now?
Lets face it oil and gas built Albertas economy and will continue to drive it for a long time? It has allowed us to prosper and send money to our masters in the east! Maybe the time has come to consider investing some of that money for the future instead of giving it away to a bunch of spendthrifts and thieves? Maybe invest it in some alternate energy technology?
Unfortunately the Alberta government is really bad at doing anything that might take away from the oil companies profits? It is pretty apparent who gives the government their marching orders?
There is some exciting stuff coming down the pipes though? Bio gas, a new and very cheap solar panel, hydrogen fuel cells. It is unfortunate that the richest government in Canada does almost nothing to promote and encourage these industries?

[cowman]

cowman, I spent two years living in the CITY during the week, and was like a caged cat. Used to head out at 5:00 AM on Fridays to get back here, and away from the stale air, noise, crime etc. of the BIG CITY !!!
It costs us a lot more to live in rural AB. Power, gas to drive to anywhere off the farm etc. but its my sanity !!!

[Deb]

The oil will run out within 10 to 20 years. People will miss their cars and trucks. Alberta will miss the revenue.

Solar, wind, hydro and nuclear will not be able to fully fill the gap that will be left when the oil is gone. Nuclear could but it is very expensive and the risk to large populations and land causes public to shy away from nuclear.

Hydrogen cells need a cheap form of energy to create the hydrogen. Right now they use fossil fuel to make hydrogen.

[cakadu]

Cowman, historically agriculture was the backbone of the economic creation and even today 1 in 3 jobs is in some way involved with agriculture and/or agri-food.

The way my father-in-law tells it, until Leduc #1 came in, there was no money to be made working in the oil patch either. We don't have to go back all that many years (about 18 months ago) to see how quickly all the oil money can disappear and doom and gloom set in i.e. $11/barrel for oil.

Non-renewable sources of energy are running out, there is no doubt on that - just how long and when the reserves will be depleted will be anyone's guess, particularly since they are finding more reserves all the time - witness the huge pool of gas found in Clearwater County not that long ago. We are fast running out of cheap sources of oil - we still have plenty of oil that will cost more to extract - however, at $50 plus per barrel, bringing that out of the ground just got a whole lot better and more economical.

Reliance on any one thing can be to our detriment, just look at the last 22 months.

What we might see the end of is huge homes for 2 people. We have a growing urban based, urban thinking population that will not move far from the city to have the amenities, nor will they want to live without them. Things are changing all around us and at a very rapid pace -- perhaps too rapid for us to understand all of the consequences.

[les]

Deb who told you oil will run out in 10 to 20 years? I think someone was having a bad dream or they are trying to scare people like you in to a major revolution against the big oil companys.

[grassfarmer]

Quite right Deb, I'm amazed that North America continues to have such an ignorant attitude to this serious matter. All the whining here when gas is 70 cents a litre - try the $1.70 it is in the UK and you will realise why they drive economical cars. There is no excuse for this ignorance. And then we have the Yanks fighting wars the world over to ensure they can burn up everybody elses oil before finally using their own - then what?
I liked the George Bush joke:
Reporter " mr Bush what do you think of the Koyoto accord?
GW " the two door or the four door?"

[Horse]

Prosperity for who those that get 1500 $ a day for consulting or 130$ per hr for a D7 $130 a day for service trucks $24 per hr for labours and we all pay at the pumps but we dont all get the high wages .
I am not sure how much of this natural gas income gets returned to the oil companys in the form of rebate to consumers but I do know we are not getting a fair shake on royalties but as long as those in power get thier big wages there wont be any change.
Emerald how do you figure you are entitled to use as much gas as you like is it just because you can afford to.
And yes cowman I do have a grudge against the oil business in alta because I have a sence of fair play.

[Horse]

horse, would you feel differently about the wages and consulting fees that folks get if you were one of them ??
As far as what I am entitled to spend on fuel for a vehicle, I guess as long as I am paying for it, no-one else should be concerned. The cost to drive my vehicle is less than the cost to drive my farm pickup, or any other farm pickup I see at parked at the auction market or in front of the UFA !!! For years I drove a little sardine can that was easy on fuel, and was petrified everytime I had to drive on ice.....and since I put on approximately 4000 km per month I decided I was going to drive something that I was comfortable in......not that I feel the need to justify what I drive !!!!!

[Deb]

There was a terrific documentary on TV the other night called "The End of Suburbia" and was all about the fact that we have peaked in oil production and fewer sources are being found and those that are are getting more expensive to extract.

Richard Heindberg (sp?) is the world analyst of energy and he was saying we have maybe a decade and nobody is sounding alarm bells as loud as they should be. The decline of the fossil fuel age will reverse globalization. Farming will become more labour intensive, there will be political upheavel, we will all have to live more locally (as another analyst put it, we won't have our Caesar salads delivered from california by truck anymore.) Another interesting statistic was that it takes 10 calories of hydrocarbon to make one calorie of food these days.

Other speakers were Michael klare who wrote "Resource Ward" and James Howard Kunstler who wrote, "The Geography of Nowhere" which is the most comprehensive book about what will happen after the fossil fuel age.

For more on this documentary, go to
www.visiontv.ca/Programs/documentaries_endsuburbia.html