The End of Suburbia

[cakadu]

Speaking of landfill issues, our county certainly had it's turn at a landfill that by all accounts was state of the art. It has turned into a very costly endeavour that now sits abandoned and people in the east part of the county have had a major concern with where to take their garbage. Out in my area, we have about another 8 months or less to go with respect to what will happen with our landfill. Actually, it's not a landfill per se but those huge dumpsters.

If a solution can't be arrived at, it looks as though we may be trucking our solid waste to another landfill, which is a short term solution at best.

Speaking of wasteful grassfarmer - look at the packaging that much of the stuff that we buy comes in. Do we really need all that goes on with packaging some products? I try and make a point of buying those things that come with a little less packaging and try to buy in bulk wherever feasible - not always economical with just two of us.

Disappearing watersheds are a huge concern and well they should be.

[cakadu]

Linda, in our area the Landfill Authority has been taking in waste from numerous other communities to help offset the cost of maintaining the landfill, but of course that shortens the lifespan of the facility.
In many areas the local landfill has been the dumping ground for all the chemicals, oilfield waste etc. over the years so the reclaimation costs will be horrific.
I think packaging adds to not only the solid waste issue but the cost of many items. We are a very wasteful society unfortunately.

As a former 4-H leader I can remember all too well the annual highway cleanup. Our club used to pick dozens of bags of garbage off a five mile stretch of highway, only to see the ditches littered within hours of completing our task.

[cakadu]

grassfarmer, thanks for the tip on the book. Will pick it up and read it.
I sometimes do reflect on what our province would be like without the industries that drive the economy.
We have seen unprecedented growth of cities, commerce etc., which has been a good thing, not only for Albertans but for others that have found employment or business opportunities here.
We do pay the price though, with pressure on the environment, agricultural landbase, our water resources and the air we breathe.
In my two years of living in downtown Calgary, I swear I never had a breath of fresh air. Give me the odors of the farm in the spring, anyday vs the haze that develops over the downtown core of cowtown.

[cakadu]

Part of the waste, don't you think, comes from wanting convenience and an immediate gratification for whatever we want to do?

I happened to be talking with a group of people who just happened to have finished their highway clean-up and the number one item that they said they found in the ditches was coffee cups (I won't say which brand, but it is a very famous one). The 2nd thing they found the most often was dirty diapers.

It is a huge irony for me that you have all these city dwellers saying that they want the great outdoors, but what do they do with it - treat it like a huge garbage dump.

There is a growing concern that the companies that sell things like off-road vehicles should be paying something for the damage that the end users do to the back country. What are your thoughts on that? Ask someone who lives in the Ghost Pine how they feel about the weekend warriors that go out there and cause untold damage.

I heard something very interesting the other day - historically it was thought that there was consumptive and non-consumptive use of the environment. What we should now be realizing is that we have all contributed (and continue to contribute) to the degradation of habitat. What can we do to restore and rejuvenate it before it is too late?

[grassfarmer]

Cakadu,
I'll answer the question you asked over on the beef board here as it kind of fits in. There is a very big resentment in the UK against farmers, they are seen as unneeded and unwanted by consumers and Government. Alberta by contrast is an agricultural utopia for me - a place with a farm culture and so little regulation - in contrast to what I knew in Europe.
The UK Government has been deliberately running down agriculture there and increasing imports from overseas. This now shapes all the policy formulation relating to agriculture and indeed there is a strong suspicion that the 2001 Foot and Mouth outbreak was started intentionally. The Government at the height of the outbreak declared that UK livestock numbers would never again be allowed to reach their former heights. They didn't anticipate the tenacity of farmers!
So now we have more policies that force producers to keep less stock, do more to make the countryside a playground for the city people. Examples being that you don't get your subsidy allocations unless you maintain public footpaths on your land - or the new one coming soon that will ban tractors from pastures when the ground is wet as it leaves unsightly ruts! Good luck in a wet climate like that.
But the reason I posted this here was your comment about the garbage in the ditches. In the UK it is far worse - there is a very small but vocal group of urban dwellers that like the countryside and insist on access and are able to shape Government policy whereas the other (90%?) see it as a dumping ground for their trash.
As far as fast food outlets trash ending up in the ditch make them responsible - suggest they pay customers to return their drinks cups for recycling. I think most of the trash I see in the ditches is indeed fast food containers. It's maybe what you get with a throw away culture in their resteraunts.

[grassfarmer]

interesting discussion. I always felt that 4-H groups and youth groups that are involved in highway cleanup are not nearly as likely to toss their garbage out the window as they travel down the highway.
In our area we have waste transfer stations at strategic locations throughout the county, they are only open certain days each week. I would think that people could schedule their garbage hauling trip to these stations on one of the two week days plus one weekend day per week, but guess what, lots of bagged garbage in the ditches on the rural roads.

I have roadside pickup that I pay for, plus haul large items to the transfer station a couple of times each month. It is convenient and I manage to keep all the garbage cleaned up around the yard etc. But some people are just born litterbugs and no matter what service are available they really don't care.
There are waste containers located on primary highways at various locations, plus most travellers stop for a break every so often so it would seem like common sense to use those opportunities to dispose of garbage....but sadly many prefer to toss it out.
Farmers and other folks iving along highways usually spend hours each week cleaning garbage from their fields, and likely cussing the folks that toss it out !!!

[Deb]

Our property is beside a town that has contruction going on at the edge, just west of us. We get insulation, insulation wrappers, tar paper, house wrap, plastic grocery bags and lots of other garbage from construction and the town.

The other day i saw that a big sheet of pink rigid insulation was pushed against the fence by the strong west wind. Then the wind changed 180 degrees, quickly, and blew the big pink sheet right towards our four horses grazing in a big field. It was part airborne and part bouncing along the ground towards them.

They saw that big thing coming at them and they went a big tear, snorting, bucking, and galloping around, it was quite funny. The horses are kind of bored and look for any excuse to act out their "prey species" instincts.

A few months ago a great big plastic board with a photo of an ice cream cone blew into my yard I kept it, thinking I could use it for something. Never did though. It broke up eventually and ended up at the transfer station, and eventually the dump.

The best thing that ever blew in from town was a $20 bill.

[Deb]

The $20.00 bill was nice, but I am sure it fell far short of paying for the time you spend picking up other peoples garbage !!!!!

For some reason this past week there have been numerous beer bottles and cans along the road past my farm....not all the same brand either so the drinkers must either be different people or they carry a wide assortment of varieties with them. I always get concerned hoping folks don't think it is me tossing out my empties on my way home !!!

[cowman]

Well maybe you are all looking at this garbage thing wrong? Maybe we should consider it "recycling in the ditch"?
The 4-H kids pick the paper up put it in plastic bags and take it to the landfill where it sits forever under a layer of dirt? How about instead letting that paper just rot in the ditch and turn back into organic material!
Of course the thing to do would be make all that fast food garbage bio degradable. So the plastics would have to be able to break down and I guess glass would have to be eliminated.
But just think, tommorrows litterer would be doing his part for the environment! LOL

[cowman]

And what a lovely looking garbage infested countryside we would have cowman !!