Drilling Activity and Notification

[cakadu]

Yesterday we were served with notification that there will be yet more drilling for gas happening on the 80 acres adjacent to us. Quite frankly, I find the way that land agents and drilling companies have to notify landowners to comply with EUB regulations a joke. The land agent told me that if adults aren't home, they can have kids sign and then they phone the parents the next day to confirm that the parents got the papers.

If anyone else had to serve documents like that, they would be laughed out of wherever they went to say that they had effected service.

Then this person went on to tell me just how far above and beyond the "call of duty" they were actually going.

By this time I was in no mood to listen to this person any more and when they told me that I should be grateful about how much money they were actually paying in terms of revenue to the county - about $2.5 million and that they also gave money to the Markerville Creamery. I told them that my roads didn't necessarily get repaired once their heavy equipment went on it as I don't get to choose when my road is done.

The person assured me that if any damage was done to the water on our place - which research has shown the drilling activity doesn't affect water supply - that they would be responsible. Now, we have some of the best water within miles of our place - how can they "fix" that if they happen to wreck it? The water is quite possibly the most attractive feature we have, next to our 80 year old yard with huge trees etc.

There are always unintended consequences to what we do and unless these drilling companies have some sort of crystal ball that tells them nothing will happen, how can they go around talking about research? Who's research? Do they pay any attention to the research that shows the opposite?

Part of me really wishes that I knew more about the proper procedures and ways to handle these people when they come around. I know that we don't have any say in this because we are only the adjacent landowners, but we are the ones who live here, who have to live with the aftermath of whatever they do and they will collect the money and not give a rip about what happens here.

Can any of you help with what a person should really know and be prepared to ask questions on? I know that the paperwork says that they are drilling for sweet gas and are anticipating going down about 900 odd feet, so it isn't methane gas that they are looking for.

I told this person that if they went and took the $2.5 million and put it into research for renewable sources of energy instead of trying to grab the non-renewable resources while the price was still high, I would be much more impressed. After that, all I basically got were a bunch of platitudes. I really don't like these people at all.

[Zaphod]

Linda, contact the EUB office in Calgary and ask to speak to someone in the legal department that deals with drilling on land adjacent to your property. As an adjacent neighbour you have the opportunity to request an EUB hearing if your concerns are not addressed properly by the company in question.
Write a letter ASAP outlining your concerns, and also your concerns with the way the documents are delivered, and send your letter by registered mail to Neil McCrank, Chairman of the EUB. If any of your neighbours feel the same way ask them to sign the letter as well.

[cowman]

Linda: Something maybe a bit quicker? Phone Leo Touchette at the EUB in Red Deer. Leo will tell you exactly what you can expect the company to do in regards to testing your water wells, springs etc.
Now I will state right here that the EUB is a government agency that has one goal....to get that well drilled! But they also expect the oil company to follow the rules. Unfortunately they don't have anybody working in the field and rely on the goodwill of the oil company!
The farmers advocate can also offer some helpful information, and I believe there is a surface rights group being formed in your area? I think it is called the Raven River Surface rights group and I believe they are having a upcoming meeting on forming a surface rights group? I think they had a small ad in the last edition of the Innisfail paper?
I attended a meeting this week of the Pine Lake Surface Rights Action Group and the main speaker was Don Bester of the Butte Action Committee at Rocky. He gave some very good information on coal bed methane and how completely different a coal seam fractures than some of the deeper formations. He also said the next big push in gas production will be in the shale formations and how no one has a clue how those will react to fraccing!
I do know right now in your area there is a major push for "shallow gas" as opposed to coal bed methane, but I will also tell you that the companies drilling for that gas will definitely be taking any coal seam gas that is in that well! They will case the well and perforate and frac, not only the gas producing formations but the coal seams as well!
And while their main goal is conventional shallow gas they will certainly be using the data they obtain on the coal bed for future reference! Coal bed methane wells are definitely coming to not only your area but practically every area of Alberta. The various companies have applied to have their well spacings reduced and this application will be heard very soon. What this application will mean is that every company will have the right to have 9 coalbed methane wells per quarter section....in every zone! There are three zones of coalbed methane that are profitable....therefore theoretically the companies could have as many wells as 27 to a quarter section!
I believe you can file a letter of objection on any well that is adjacent to your land? This won't keep them out of your land( When they want to come, they will!)but it will make it more difficult and will buy you some time!
The EUB will probably not help you out there but the farmers advocate probably will and a surface rights group definitely will!
This year in the eastern half of Red Deer county there will be a massive drilling operation for CBM! The companies are still smoozing the farmers in most cases...but they are starting to play hardball with some people. That is how these companies work? First they pick off the easy targets, then they come back and work the tougher ones, then they come in with court orders! Once they are into any section they basically own you.
Your only hope of saving anything is to get involved with your local surface rights groups and making it as difficult as possible for the gas company, then they might bypass you for a few more years! But make no mistake here....the companies and the Alberta government want that gas and they will get it, no matter what!
Incidently, the municipality does benifit in a really big way from all this gas activity and so they quietly support coal bed drilling while making loud noises of protest! The fact is this county is so out of control on their spending that they need the "gas fix" to keep operating? Quite a bit of extra money is being put into the roads but no where near the extra revenue that is rolling in? The waste is very apparent if you ever see how the municipality operates? The "Taj Mahal" office is overflowing with staff(they recently had to buy another building)! When the county of Red Deer privatized their operations about four years ago they had about 37 employees. They have since hired back around 47! The only difference is instead of workers actually doing the nuts and bolts work, they now have an extra large beuracracy of office workers...running around trying to look busy!
The renumeration for councillors truly is a scandal? I believe the honorarium is $31,000/yr. but in reality with per diems, meals,travel expenses, committee work etc. the average take home cost would be considerably higher? I believe they published a cost breakdown a couple of years ago and the Reeve was in that $90,000 range and a couple of councillors were in the high 80's! The lowest paid councillor came in at $46,000! Not too shabby for a part time job?

[cowman]

Good advice on calling the local rep from the EUB, and also getting in touch with surface rights groups.
However, on another issue cowman, I do have to point out that you state that compensation for travel, etc. raises the councillors pay higher. Do you drive a vehicle ? I used to be a county councillor and what we received for a mileage allowance barely covered the cost of gasoline much less the cost of insurance, tires, upkeep, and the cost of the vehicle itself.
When I was a councillor I put a minimum of 50,000 km per year on my vehicle on county business.
The part time job entails decision making on a multi million dollar budget and attending conferences on issues from planning to agricultural initatives, seniors housing etc.
All too often it is difficult to attract good people to put their name forward to run for municipal councils, and one key reason is because of the flak they take from citizens about being paid fair compensation for the work they do.
When I was on council the highest amount I was paid including my compensation for out of pocket expenses such as rooms, meals etc. was $25,000.00
And I damn well earned every penny and more.....had to continually hire help here at the farm to look after things while I was away on county business. It was my choice to run for council but it was at the urging of many of my neighbours who really believed I could make a difference, and I am sure the same applies to your councillors cowman.
Your annual report should arrive with your tax notice and it should include information on the earnings of each council member.

If they aren't worth what they are being paid, there is an election in 2007.

[cakadu]

Thanks for the advice. I will call the EUB next week and try to get more information and some clarification on points. The land agent said to call the drilling company for more information, but I don't necessarily think that I will get the straight truth from the company as they have their own mandate to fulfill and will quite likely say what they need to in order to get me to go away.

Looks like I will have a great deal of reading to do this weekend to sort through the documents that the agent did leave. In some respects it is mind boggling as to how little rights you do have to the land that you own. The genius that thought up separating the mines and minerals from the rest of the titles should be.....

I feel that there is a great irony going on here. I fully support and endorse environmental farm plans as I believe that they are a great risk assessment tool for your farm. The irony for me is that as land owners we are being pushed to ensure that we do not contaiminate surface and ground water and yet these drilling companies can go in and do what they have to in order to extract the oil and gas and it appears as though it doesn't matter what they do to surface or ground water. Is it just me or is there something fundamentally out of whack here.

Of all the reclamation orders that have to be filled once the drilling is done only 4% of them are carried out as there is no one to "police" the orders. Go figure.

Everything is about balance cowman. If the county is taking in a lot of money from these companies, then what are they doing to help alleviate the footprint that they are leaving behind? If the company is putting in $2.5 million, what difference does it make if they do $3 million in damage?

[cakadu]

Linda, usually the municipality ensures that companies either post a bond for road damages or enter into a road use agreement. Many resource companies have paid for gravel, grading costs etc. when their activities cause damage to municipal roads.
Call your public works director and inquire as to what is in place to ensure that the road damage done by industry is not passed on to the taxpayers.

[cakadu]

I don't think I have ever seen an annual report come with the tax notice. In fact, I don't think I've even seen an ad saying that we have access to an annual report. I must check into that.

The amount you were paid as a councillor, emrald, doesn't sound like much in the way of compensation at all, compared to other municipalities. About 2 years ago now, the councillors here voted themselves a 46% raise in fees - to a base salary of $30 K per year. The fee is for attending council meetings etc and the drawback there is that they don't have to attend the council meeting, but they will still get paid. Under the old system, they had to attend meetings to get paid. They also get paid mileage at 50 cents/km. They collect a per diem if doing county business like attending the conferences etc. Now some of them will charge for going to things like council information days at the county office and some of them don't - they consider it part of their yearly salary.

What I would like to see more of is councillors advising us of the outcomes of all these meetings that they go to. If you or I go to a meeting on behalf of our company, we are expected (or at least I have been) to give a report on what I learned and how it can be applied to the job at hand. Granted, there can't be a report of that nature on everything that the councillors go to, but there should be some sort of accountability for what they are doing - at least I think so.

Which brings another point up. Emrald - you've been on things like the ag summit etc. and we have all sat on committees where there are government counterparts, industry people etc. How would you handle, or how have you seen it handled, where producers - who get no compensation for attending and as you say sometimes even have to pay out of pocket to have someone look after the farm while they attend - or grassroots groups who have barely enough money to keep the proverbial body and soul together - are treated the same as those whose mandate it is to be at the meeting? It happens time and time again and I wonder how we can get the paid players to see that we are not all equal on the team? Yes, we are equals in terms of being a bum in a chair (no pun intended), but there is some difference when you are paid to be there versus being there because it is a cause near and dear to your heart.

These groups want to have producers/grassroots people on them, yet they don't provide a means for them to sit on these committees, boards etc. With gas at 90 cents/litre (and expected to rise) and farming not paying worth beans these days, how can one keep doing it for free? How do you get people to recognize that particular inequality and still get informed, qualified people to be productive members of these teams.

This is an age old challenge and one that needs to find some viable solutions.

[cakadu]

Linda, I am sure that the county is obligated to provide an annual report, and I know for a fact that councillors compensation and that of the CEO are public and may be requested by any taxpayer at anytime.
The council in my municipality decided in their wisdom three years ago to hire a couple of individuals ( friend of the Reeve at that time ) to make recommendations on council and the Reeves compensation. That resulted in a huge increase in compensation particularly for the Reeve. He was given the boot by the voters last fall and the new council has revisited the compensation they receive and have lowered it somewhat. The former Reeve had a couple of buddies that voted in favor of everything he suggested during the three year mandate so he was travelling all across Canada at the local taxpayers expense. It was literally obscene, and thankfully the local ratepayers association successfully lobbied the government by way of a petition signed by 70% of eligible voters, to order a complete inquiry into the conduct of council.

Does your municipality have a ratepayers group ? In some cases that is the best way to ensure that councils are accountable. I used to do written reports on every conference I attended and also provide oral reports at each council meeting.

All members at large on committees in my municipality are paid the same renumeration as council members for each meeting they attend, and council members are not paid for any meeting they do not attend. I know that some municipalities have a different pay scale for members at large, I don't agree with that, as members at large have the same decision making role to play on Ag Service Boards, Planning Commissions, Seniors Foundations etc. as do elected officials.

When I was first asked to participate in the Ag summit process my municipality paid for my expenses etc., but after I was no longer on council I paid for my own, meals, hotel accommodation etc.
I know that the cost of travel these days will certainly preclude many folks from VOLUNTEERING their time on various organizations and there has to be a mechanism in place to cover expenses equally for all participants.

Some organizations will pay expenses for delegates for a certain number of nights at conferences and after that they are on their own.

Too many people volunteer their time in numerous organizations within their own community and are excellent choices to have a place at the table on various provincial initiatives and should receive compensation for their time and efforts.

Our local Ag Society tries to send different members to various conferences throughout the year, all expenses paid, as a way of saying thankyou for volunteering their time locally.

When I was first elected to council locally I was serving as a volunteer on 13 various groups, locally and across the Province. It was costing a fortune out of pocket but I believed in giving back to the community, however, there comes a time when a person has to weigh just how much time and dollars they can afford to give.

[cakadu]

I agree with you emrald - I do what I do because I feel very strongly about giving back. Unfortunately, giving back doesn't do much to add to the bottom line and trade-offs have to start occuring. I also feel strongly that we have to start putting new leadership in place, as the current leadership will be retiring, moving on etc. and succession has to be built in. The sad part about it is that even though groups know that they need to build some sort of succession in, many are reluctant (and in some cases blocked) from doing it, which will leave many groups and organizations scrambling to replace people over the next few years. In most cases I have been happy if my expenses have been covered - that way I'm not out of pocket for anything except my time away from the farm and/or my contracting.

I wonder what the best way is to broach the subject of some sort of remuneration for time and expenses-particularly when you are at the formative stages of a group. I'm definitely not afraid to speak up when necessary and this is a time when I feel it is.

I'm very tempted to go to the ratepayers meeting that they are having tomorrow night in my division. Might find out something new there.

I feel that I could learn a great deal from you emrald because it sounds like you have a lot of experiences that you draw from and I would like to improve what I'm doing so that I can become more effective at what I do. I hope to continue to dialogue with you, even just by ordinary e-mail or perhaps one day in person, if you feel you would be so inclined.

Thanks for all the great information that you give. I for one enjoy learning from you.

[cakadu]

Linda, I sure don't claim to have all the answers but knowledge comes with experience if a person is keen on what they do. I did enjoy my years as an elected official but there were certainly some major challenges. In my situation three out of five wanted to work as a team and without the committment of council to that end it was a real hill to climb !!

I certainly encourage you to attend the ratepayers meeting. Ask questions and if you don't get answers then write a letter to the Reeve and Council asking the same questions.
Any letter sent to your county should always be addressed to the Reeve and Council, then it will get into the council agenda. Letters addressed to administration do not, so if you want to make a point ensure that you go through the political channels.

As far as compensation goes, it will depend on the bylaws of the particular organizations you are involved with. Some, including Ag Societies are starting to realize that they need to compensate some of their folks for the time they put in.

The REA here had the same secretary for 40 years. She worked for nothing for 30 years then asked for a small renumeration. With the huge growth of residential parcels in the area the workload is almost the same as a permanent part time job.
When the new secretary took over she was encouraged to ask for a fair wage for the work she did and also compensation for office space in her home.

I can remember cleaning out papers and documents from my office a few years ago and I literally had four filing cabinets and one huge double door storage cabinet full of stuff that belonged to the organizations I was a volunteer of.

I really feel that all organizations should compensate their executive and directors for mileage to all meetings, conferences etc., as I said before the cost to volunteer often is a deterrent for good folks, and the organizations are the worse for it.

As far as succession is concerned, it is a touchy subject isn't it ?
I always feel that every organization including council should 'grow' their own replacement. By encouraging and mentoring good people each position should have several willing candidates when it becomes vacant, but sadly that is hardly ever the case.


In some community associations the same people have been doing the work and serving on the executive since time immortal !! In our local community association one family had literally run the community hall board for years and when the community grew and new folks joined and had new ideas the you know what hit the fan !!!
The older folks didn't agree with the new suggestions and on more than one occaision I was called upon as the area councillor to attend meetings and act as chair just to keep the meetings under control.

I refused to do so unless a motion was made and the vote was unanimous, then once I assumed the chair I became the chairman from hell until people realized that meetings are not places to yell at one another and refuse to listen to each others ideas etc.

There were a few of those meetings where I felt that perhaps I should wear a flak jacket and carry a firehose, but as time went on and the new community members were encouraged to respect the work done by the original members and value their experience, and the older folks were encouraged to realize that times do change, things started to improve.

I always feel that associations need to increase their membership regularly but that as we know is only wishful thinking.

[cakadu]

Linda, I would enjoy meeting you and having a chat one of these days. I drive through Red Deer often so will keep in touch and hopefully we can meet.

[bombay_43]

Interesting conversation. Perhaps you should contact the Alberta Surface Rights Federation. Everyday people like you and I, just wanting fair shakes. Your contact person listed on the internet Tom Nahirniak at 672-6021.

This group meets regularly at the Norseman Inn in Camrose. Best of luck Linda!

[cowman]

Linda: As of January 1st the "honorarium" for councillors was raised 3% to $30,900. I believe the per diem of $150/day was also raised 3%? And I'm not sure if they raised the per kilometer rate, or if it stayed at 50 cents/k? For every committee a councillor sits on they get the per diem, mileage to attend, appropriate meal allowance for the time spent in committee. I believe breakfast is set at $11 and lunch/dinner at $15?
Apparently this isn't enough inducement to attract a lot of people to run as it is kind of a thankless job. No matter what you do, someone isn't happy and some people are completely unreasonable! A newly elected councillor told me he couldn't believe the learning curve he had to go through or the time he has to spend learning the ropes.
Red Deer County has made some real bonehead moves in the last few years that have cost us all a ton of money? The Bill Mearns affair, the annexation of Springbrook, the winter gravelling program, faulty engineering of new roads, wasting money on a Reeves Task Force on Land use(when they had no intention of listening to what the people said), the gong show of privatization(which actually led to more paper pushers)and last but not least the "Taj Mahal"...a completely unecessary and extravagant expense!
And no, I have no intentions of running for council! My councillor has been in for 18 years(almost always by acclimation) and is about the only one with a brain! Hoping the new crop of councillors turns out to be better managers.

[cowman]

Just adding a wee bit to the above: The county had a policy of winter gravelling for about the last three years. The rationale behind it was they could hire cheaper trucking in the winter! The public works manager they hired had never dealt with gravel roads! Now all the old grader operators knew this was completely retarded but he wouldn't listen to them...his attitude was he knew more than anybody else....after all he was getting the big bucks, right! So what happened? The gravel went on, it never got a chance to set in the frozen ground, and the first snowfall the snowplow pushed it into the ditch! Next time you are driving Red Deer County roads notice all the gravel in the ditch? After the first year it was very evident that it didn't work but when you sit in an office all day, I guess you never notice that? And besides, you wouldn't want to admit you were totally wrong and really didn't have a clue? So on it goes for another couple of years until the phone calls...and an election...finally brought reality home?
Then we have roadbuilding? Lowest tender for fill? Doesn't seem to matter that the fill won't pack! So you rebuild the road two, three, or more times! Is this cost effective?
Of course the contractor told them right from the start that river silt won't pack...but what does he know? Probably never attended any engineering school like the county engineer! On and on these things go! The contractors are happy as larks...the goofups keep happening and the work has to be done again and again! Unfortunately the councillors have not been on top of this or they need to cover their butts, because they hired these highly paid "experts" who really don't have a clue?

[cowman]

armchair public works superintendents are always interesting to listen to !!! Winter gravelling is done in this area as well, mainly because it is impossible to get on the roads for a lot of the spring due to their being soft and then if there happens to be a wet summer the gravelling program is set back further.
When one consideres the number of kms that are scheduled for gravelling each year winter gravelling makes sense in some municipalities.
As for gravel in the ditch, if the grader isn't scraping the hell out of the road the gravel in the ditch should be at a minimum, and one thing for sure it will all come back on the road whenever shoulder pulling takes place.

In our area we had lots of old grader operators and unfortunately one of them was on council for a number of years. He fed a complete line of BS to the public in his area and the poor gradermen faced continual complaints for doing the job they were hired to do.
On the other hand, some of the retired gradermen were brought in to train new operators and it worked very well and still is.

As far as honorariums are concerned I don't know if Red Deer gets a base salary plus honorariums or not, but most counties are not on the salary system. The councillors get paid per meeting and if they don't have many committees they certainly don't make much.
The fact is that there are a number of municipalities that do not have a huge assessment base and their councils work for a lot less than those in the more affluent jurisdictions.
Some municipalities are sending some if not all of their council members to the annual Federation of Municipalities conference, and this year it is in Newfoundland.
When I was on council I attended it the year it was in Banff, and for the most part I felt it was a waste of time. Most of it is geared to eastern municipalities !!!

Councillors that have served for many years certainly deserve a lot of thanks from the ratepayers and if they are receiving a fair reneumeration now, they damn well deserve it because you can bet that for many of those years they worked for a lot less !!!