Leaving a Footprint

[cakadu]

Linda, if the County is concerned or if residents are concerned about the water quality in the lake then a ban on chemicals or chemical fertilizer could be a condition of the ASP.
Is the county putting in waterlines or is a developer doing it or is the county the developer ?

[tower]

There's the problem, we all want to have the lake and eat it too. By the time the cumulative impacts of the development are noticed the development is done and the developers are on to the next scheme.

Anyone who is relatively satisfied with the way things are now, and I think we all ought to be pretty d#%& satisfied, should be getting the development agents to pay for projections of final costs, including environmental, social, and financial.

[tower]

I assume that the county is funding a lot of the development costs. Some municipalities do this in order to encourage development but believe me residential development costs municipalities vs being a financial windfall !! The demand for services, street lighting and other infrastructure rar outweighs the tax dollars injected in the long haul.
The environmental affect is something that needs to be addressed upfront in large projects or the loser will be all Albertans .

Any resident can attend public hearings and make suggestions for conditions to development permits, ASP's etc. Common sense suggestions should be given consideration.

[cakadu]

Emrald, the public notice regarding Gleniffer Lake had to do with the approval for renewal of an existing water treatment facility. The renewal was to include the approval of a major upgrade of the facility. The upgraded facility will be located in the SW 19-35-2-W5 - about 20 miles from Innisfail. With a treatment capacity of 870 cubic meteres per day, the facility will include a package conventional filtration plant (coagulation, flocculation and filtration) chlorine and UV disinfection as well as two underground water storage reservoirs. The combined storage capacity of the two reservoirs will be 643 cubic metres. Waste water from the water treatment facility, after solids removal and dechlorination will be discharged into the lake.

Hopefully this will be safe for all users of that water.

The other thing that we residents of the county are going to have to pay attention to is the fact that the county is going to look at building up areas such as Gleniffer, Springbrook so that they can save on agricultural land. It should be okay as long as they include public consultation right from the outset. They are going to be releasing the results of the third study that the county has commissioned very soon regarding development rights, which includes building up these smaller areas.

There is serious growth projected for Gleniffer as the baby boomers want to retire and have some place nice to reside in year round. Not quite the Okanagan, but the best we've got?????

Do you ever get the feeling that things are moving far too fast for us to have any idea of the cumulative and/or long-term effects and consequences of what we are doing?

[cakadu]

Linda, public consultation must take place at each stage of development if it involves rezoning, approval of ASP's or approval of subdivisions by MPC. I think that pressure on municipalities such as Red Deer, Rockyview etc. and Parkland and Leduc is tremendous and councils are put to the test dealing with the balancing act that is necessary to ensure that they manaage there land base in a way that will sustain agriculture as well as allow choices for those who wish to live in the rural areas.

[cowman]

Horse: I have been a little slack of late trying to find time to visit this site, so missed your comments about oil and gas spending. Busy building up another little offshoot business, catering to what I hope the coalbed methane boys might need!
Yes I do hate waste. Have been basically pretty tight with my money all my life. I believe that is essential to be a businessman...or so it is my belief?
Yes, the oil and gas industry, blow money like a bunch of drunken sailors! And I have no problem helping them spend some of that loot!
But you must realize that your own Alberta government has helped create this monster? The actual royalties paid on a barrel of crude net the Alberta government around $4/barrel, while Alaska gets $9! And Norway gets over $11! Gives the companies a lot more money to play with?
You should also realize no one is sitting there with a gun telling you not to get in on the action? The oil patch is screaming for all kinds of services and people! Of course you need to pay your dues and get out and do your homework before you can get in on the gravy train!
My buddies kid is just starting out as a "power engineer"(steam ticket) at Fort Mac. Went to school for one year, while being subsidized/working for Syncrude....starting off at $80,000/yr.! By next year he will have his 2nd class ticket and be making $130,000! Not too shabby for a 21 year old kid?

[cowman]

cowman, you are so right . The opportunities are available in AB., for anyone wanting to take the chance; investigate what services and expertise are needed, and seize the opportunity to cash in on the AB Advantage.
My eldest son formed his own company two years ago, after being an employee of an oilfield service company for years. He works in the drilling end of the 'patch', and has done extremely well. He is a welder by trade, but has expanded his knowlege and areas of expertise over the years and it is paying off for him.
It is a case of getting on the bandwagon at an opportune time, and many enterprising folks have and are taking advantage of it.

[cakadu]

At the very least I should think that muncipalities should put a moratorium on new coalbed methane drilling activity at least until it is determined just how many holes can be dug at what layers etc. Right now there are some pretty big denials that 27 holes can be dug per quarter section, but if that comes to pass, how much land are we going to loose and become useless for farming? How sad will the day be when we become a net importer of food?

As far as making lots of money in the "patch", I can't say I blame anyone for doing it, but it sure has the problem to set up some huge social problems. When you're young, you don't think about the fact that it may last for just a short time and you over-extend and before you know it, the bank has all that you thought you owned.

I'm old enough to remember the last real oil boom and also old enough to remember the plea when it ended "Please God let there be another oil boom and I promise not to P*&% it all away next time." I also remember doing a wagonload of mortgage takebacks because people were just walking away from houses. Sure it's great to have $600 per month vehicle payments, a $200,000 plus mortgage and all the toys that money can buy, but there is always that rainy day. When you're in your early years, do you think about putting money aside for that rainy day or do you like spending all that you earn so that you can have fun, because you deserve it?

In today's society, many kids expect to leave home and what their parents had into the exact same thing, not realizing that it took their parents 25 years or more to get to that stage. Many of the ethics and values that we grew up with have long since disappeared in this instant gratification - me, me, me society.

Again, I don't begrudge anyone doing what they do and know that we all make choices and do what we can live with.

Change is happening so rapidly now that we had more changes in the last 3 years than were seen in the previous 30, which were seen in the previous 300. To be on the cutting edge, we don't have time to think long-term, strategically or give consideration to the consequences (particularly the unforeseen ones.)

Oh my - it is Sunday isn't it, enough of a sermon.

[cowman]

Actually Linda, there are a lot of "kids" out there who have no intention of just blowing the money, but look down the road to a future? Emeralds son would be an example?
It is my personal belief that the best way to live is to work for yourself. It will teach you all kinds of good things about responsibility and the concept of "the buck stops here"!
Nobody can take as much interest in any business as the guy who owns it?
I also believe every young person should have a trade or some area of expertize that is bottom line necessary? We can all muddle through without lawyers, or accountants, or for that matter a doctor....but we sure need mechanics, electricians, plumbers, and various engineers! I also believe everyone can educate him/herself in some of the basics in these type of things...but the time comes when you might really need an expert?
And yes, there are lots of young people who blow their money and never give a thought for tommorrow...and in a way that is okay too? After all you are young and you will never enjoy it as much! Somehow I find it ironic that when a person is young and could really use the money, they don't have any...and when they are old and don't need it they have lots!...now mind you that doesn't necessarily apply to me(the having lots)!

[cowman]

when I look around the oil patch and see all the self made millionaires that don't even have a high school education it proves that its there for the taking if a person has the desire to get out and make it work.

As far as debt goes, I think that farmers are likely in that category as well, and a lot of farm debt is for shiny new machinery when the old stuff could have been fixed and made do.....my point is that folks who make their living in the resource industry don't have a monopoly on debt.

[cakadu]

Emrald, I don't dispute that everyone can become prone to getting more than they need because there is such "easy" credit out there. It's easy to get - not so easy to pay back. It is a proven fact - generally - when you make more, you spend more.

I look at the number of people I know that have all the latest and greatest and are probably carrying so much debt load that if one of them, god forbid, got sick or lost their job (which in this day and age is fairly easy) then they are in a real bind. How many of them have saved enough money to live for 3 months - "just in case?"

Not all people are like that and many do have those thrifty values. There are likely just as many if not more who have had things given to them all their lives, don't understand the value of a dollar or a good day's work and still expect to have all of that and more. Kids live what they learn and if mom and dad were out there earning so that they could give the kids everything, then the kids will more than likely live that way as well.

We all likely have our own idea of what we feel is a comfortable amount to live on and I have no doubt that it covers the whole spectrum.

I don't think that today's kids can get away without having some sort of education behind them, whether it be a formal university degree or a trade, as you suggest, cowman. In fact, I have encouraged my nieces and nephews to get trades because they will end up earning a lot more money in the long run and the way development is going, there will always be a call for some trades like plumbing, electric etc.

Bottom line is that the oil patch always cycles - will people be ready for the net time that oil drops to $20 a barrel? And you're right emrald, many producers also make decisions based on when prices are really good, ignoring the fact that they will drop again.

Whatever happened to the days when you didn't get something unless you had the actual cash folding money in hand to go and get it?

[cakadu]

Most folks in the oilpatch learned their lesson in the 80's and are investing well, so they don't fall on their face if things go to heck again.

[cakadu]

That's true that the 18 to 25 year olds of the 80's are now 40 to 45 years old and one would hope that they've learned their lessons.

Today's 18 to 25 year olds don't have that experience and unless they have the history and the wisdom given to them, they could be doomed to make the same mistakes. They are perfectly well within their rights to make their own mistakes and some won't listen any way because when you're that age you know most if not all of it anyway. What they do have is being young, making lots of money and having more consumer goods to buy than at any other point in history.

[cowman]

Well Linda, I try to never be hard on the young people...after all they are the ones who are going to take care of us when we are old worthless crocks!
I agree that some of them can be "reckless", but consider this...did someone ever consider you reckless?
Now I will admit...I was damned reckless! And the really amazing thing was my son is absolutley not reckless! This old genetic thing is weird to say the least!
Now his mother was real meticulous and it just about drove me crazy! Now in the end it didn't work at all for us, but I do believe it produced some pretty decent children!
At times he exasperates me to no end...and I'm sure the feeling is mutual! I will admit I could probably drive a saint to drink.
And yet we seem to be able to plow along and understand each other, and we do share a common vision of how it should be! So without a doubt I have obtained my goal of having my child involved in my business and in my life. Does it ever get any better than that?

[cowman]

cowman, I am sure that you instilled some pretty common sense values in your son, likely he is a lot like you only you don't realize it !!!
Being reckless in ones youth isn't necessarily a bad thing( not speaking from experience of course !) as long as no-one gets hurt and the recklessness doesn't include a lack of respect for people or property that belongs to others !!! I like to refer to it as grabbing lifes opportunities by the horns vs being reckless !!!

My eldest son would have driven a preacher to cuss many times over during his younger years, but he turned out okay. Got married very young and lived through tough times and good times, still has his reckless streak at times, but is a dedicated dad and grandpa, and as reliable as they come in his chosen field. When he and I take strolls down memory lane we both are amazed that he survived some of his antics !!!!
His brother on the other hand was and still is a solid, no nonsense fellow and the thought of being reckless never crossed his mind.