They say if you live long enough

[daretodiffer]

Thank you "farmers son" for doggedly trying to class up the ridiculous rants of the regulars on this thread. You are the kind of person who keeps this country going by your thinking and reasoning. To see the snorting and harumphing going on by many of the supporters of "family values" makes for a great spectacle but seems a sure sign that they have never had to show some leadership in complex issues.

[daretodiffer]

Sorry again to disagree with you but some of us have been in situations as elected and appointed officials where we are making decisions on a daily basis that affect the interests of thousands. The day that family values is discredited is a sad day on this site, if more politicians had family values and integrity the country would not be in the mess it is. When I support any politician I find out what I can about how they conduct themselves as an ordinary citizen. In my opinion, every politician no matter what level should set the bar very high for their own personal conduct, then it might come naturally for them at a political level.

[silverback]

How can anybody be making excuses to keep the Liberal party in power and not in prison???

What part of the word corruption do some of you not understand???

Quit blabbing about Harper, McKay, and Stronach and the soap opera the media is spinning around. Focus on a real issue for a while.

Anyone who can say we should just let things go on the way they are and let the Liberals keep blowing away our money is out of their minds!!

Tell me what great values the Liberal party represent and I will try to understand what you see in them. Then tell me in point form what "scares" you about the other 2 parties and then we can have a real discussion.

[farmers_son]

If you are directing those comments towards me I would say the great value the Liberal party represented for me was they kept Canada out of Iraq, even if at great cost. What scares me about the Conservatives is I see them seeking closer ties to the Americans, that Harper is closer to Bush than to Stanfield or Diefenbaker. The federal NDs would obviously see spending increase and I would be concerned they would be running a deficit budget if they were in power. And those are just opinions of mine, people are free to disagree. There is no simple right or wrong opinion or answer. I think it is important for everyone to remember that.

I understand corruption, just don't really believe the other parties are all that pure either, and I am not sure I am all that hung up on the Liberal sponsorship scandal. No one is saying the PQs were playing fair in the separatist debate, the future of the country was at stake, it might be naive to believe everyone in politics is a choir boy, irregardless of party affiliation. Certainly some distance has been put between the Martin Liberals and the Chretian Liberals and even though that don't make it right until Gomery issues his report we don't really know the facts, if indeed we ever will.

[grassfarmer]

Farmers_son, if i'm not mistaken Sadam Hussain's regime did not want the Americans help either. Sometimes when the Government is behind a genocide of some of it's own citizens they don't look for outside "help" - doesn't mean the people being murdered don't deserve our help.

[farmers_son]

The situation in the Sudan is very unfortunate. Was it something Kilgour could fix, I think not. Doesn't mean there were not problems at home that he could have influenced had he tried.

[FarmRanger]

“the great value the Liberal party represented for me was they kept Canada out of Iraq, even if at great cost.”
To who? Mostly the west, and they could have kept troops out of Iraq without trying to insult the Americans in the process. The Liberal comments of “American bastards” was uncalled for and the person responsible should have been kicked out of the Liberal party. There’s a difference between keeping our troops out of Iraq, (which I happen to agree with, we didn’t have to ability to do any good there anyway, any support we offered would have been merely symbolic) and purposely trying to tick off our largest trading partner.

And daretodiffer, its funny how people who try to point out the corruption which appears to be endemic with the Liberals, get relegated to the status of the “regulars on this thread with ridiculous rants”. How typical, divert from the issue by simply marginalizing a view you disagree with. That way you don’t have to actually defend a point, just namecall the person making it. Once you can label a person some derogatory name, you can shut them out of any debate. Unfortunately, it seems to be the Canadian way. There is never any honest debate allowed. If someone voices a non liberal opinion, they are instantly marginalized by the media and the left. So much for freedom of speech.

Well, this thread regular would like to know which rant was ridiculous. Wanting accountability in government? How silly, who would want that? Demanding to have leaders with integrity? Poo Poo, what a right wing whacko idea that is, must be a hidden agenda there somewhere. Kick out a government that uses stolen tax dollars to keep themselves in power. Oh my, can’t be that, who would be upset about that except some ridiculous ranting nutjob. Obviously someone who shouldn’t be listened to, voicing dangerous ideas like that.

[FarmRanger]

FarmRanger, thank you for some excellent comments !!!!!
The reason this site appeals to me is because of the many opinions and wide array of expertise. Making derogatory comments is an example of imature behavior not matter whether its in Ottawa or on Agri- Ville !!
I don't necessarily agree with farmers_Son with respect to politics but I certainly respect his right to his opinion....and certainly appreciate his obvious knowledge about many cattle and agricultural related topics.
I think that the entire Belinda/Government issue has caused a considerable amount of emotions among a lot of people this week. Time to relax and enjoy the long weekend !!!

[grassfarmer]

Yeah it would be interesting to see "daretodiffer" dare to actually post a new thread or voice some original ideas rather than sit on the sidelines and snipe.

[silverback]

Ok so let's just pretend that the ad scam was a great thing for the benefit of this country. The missing money going back to the liberals was only the cost of doing good things for "Canada". Just a little money.

However, if by simply uttering the words "We Will not support America in this war in Iraq" meant that Washington decided it will be a cold day in h___ before any beef crosses the border, then I would say the Liberals have cost many of us much, much more than anyone will ever be able to calculate. All they had to say was that we don't have the troops - that would be the truth, but I guess they are much better at telling lies.

I cannot understand the paranoid thoughts that some people have about the United States. I am mad about what they have done to this cattle industry, but they also have more money than God down there. They have a tax system that actually lets people keep their own money and then decide what to do with it - what a crazy system.

The last time I checked, most people work for real companies or themselves, and the way that our economy operates is that we sell things and then we buy things. Anyone who thinks we can survive without trading with others is wrong. How about we get over this "Canadians are better than Americans" garbage and realize that there is not much difference. It must be really a crazy thought to some that it might be a good idea to try and improve the trade relations with the U.S. How can anyone argue that that is the wrong thing to do???

After that, don't believe everything that Farenheit 9/11 preaches, if you are a true thinking person who can do some research, it is very easy to figure out that it is just a film, not a factual documentary.

[ivbinconned]

Farmers-son please humor me and let me direct you, for reading, to two items that I have posted that you did not respond to, but do address two issues that you raise here.

No.1 May 19th "Every Body Does It", here you will learn, hopefully, that only very shallow thinking would excuse the crimes of the Librano$ with the suggestion that all parties are guilty.

No.2 March 11th "The Power Behind The Throne's"
Here one learns, hopefully, that your view (which is way out to lunch) on Canada's refusal to participate in Iraq could be summed up using the words of Stephn Harper..." there is no grand principle involved here, only ambition"!

Stephen was refering to Belinda $tronach of course but the same comment applies to Jean Cretian and his stance on Iraq.

BLATANT self interest was invoved!!

[ivbinconned]

IF nothing else this weeks gong show in Ottawa, has resulted in a lot of Canadians getting interested in politics !!!