Mandatory Retirement ?

[FarmRanger]

Heard the last part of a call in program today dealing with mandatory retirement. The comments ranged from encouraging people to work as long as possible, to putting us all out to pasture at 65.
I am interested in hearing what you folks think.

[farmers_son]

One of the advantages of being a full time farmer is that I may have the option of working beyond 65 if I choose to and my health allows me. I hope I get to only with a little more time to enjoy other pursuits like travel, politics, maybe grandchildren.

I did a little reading on the subject and something I did not know was four Canadian provinces have provincial rights legislation that prohibits mandatory retirement (Alberta, Manitoba, Quebec, and New Brunswick).

The average retirement age for both sexes is 58.5 years although some return to the workforce through self employment. Certainly self employment seems to offer an avenue whereby an individual can continue to work as long as they want.

[farmers_son]

For years oil companies pensioned off their people at 65, some took early retirement if they had been with the company long enough to draw their full pension, but in many cases the companies hired them back as consultants. That way the company wasn't on the hook for benefits etc.
My view is that the longer people can keep their minds active and do productive work they should do it if they wish.
More physically demanding jobs likely call for younger workers but many jobs these days are mentally demanding and as long as the old grey matter is working age should be no barrier. Farming is one occupation where age doesn't seem to be an issue, the average age of farmers is getting older not younger. Still being active on the farm while being able to enjoy family, travel etc. would be the ideal life for many folks.

[cakadu]

Emrald I agree with your comments about keeping one's mind healthy and active. I've talked with some friends whose husbands have retired and it has become a nightmare for them because the husband continually hangs around them and doesn't give them space anymore.

The more mentally alert we can stay, the less health and other problems arise. One caution that I would have when it comes to keeping people in mentally demanding jobs would be that they have to be effective in what they do. We all know people who haven't had a new or innovative thought or idea for years and would like to see things continue on the same way, no matter how much change is going on around them. I know that the scenario I describe can take place with any age group at any time. A lawyer I used to work for described 25 years experience this way: you can have 25 years of experience or 1 years experience 25 times. Growing and adapting to the continual changes around us is vital to sustainability and long term success - no matter what the occupation is.

[cakadu]

Linda,I agree, and all too often those folks with no vision or willingness to adapt to change seem to get elected to municipal councils ! Either that or they get re-elected time after time. I am not finger pointing at all elected officials because some of the ones that have served their municipality for years have kept abreast of the changes that are necessary and continue to make a significant contribution.

A good balance of youth, new ideas and experience makes any organization work well in my view.

[cowman]

Well emerald...weren't you a councillor? Now I wonder which category you fell into? LOL! Don't get upset...I'm just jerking your chain!
I think there comes a time when everyone should say "Hey, it's enough. Time to give the next generation their chance!"
I see all these old farmers who are stuck down on the farm because they never gave the kids a chance! Then they bellyache that the kids are all gone and they are stuck with the farm! Big martyr!
I suspect a good portion of them are control freaks who can't fathom the idea of letting go of the decisions and the purse strings? The fact of life is this...you came into this world with nothing and you will leave the same way!
Give the darn kids a chance! Yea, they may screw it up but in the big picture it really doesn't matter? ...and surprize, surprize...they may actually do it one hell of a lot better than we did!

[cowman]

Cowman, believe it or not I posted this item just to hear your comments, and you are pretty well on the mark of what I thought you would say !!!

NOW...let me tell you....I was not an OLD FART when I was on council, and I was likely the most forward thinking of the entire crew, three of which WERE old boys that thought a woman's place was at home watching the kids, cooking, knitting or all of the above, and certainly not having an opinion on the way things should be run in a municipality !!!

I agree that in agriculture or business if the kids are to have a chance they ought to be able to make their own decisions, but on the other hand they should not be too bullheaded to ask the old boy advice once in awhile !!!!

[cakadu]

The other side of mandatory retirement is the fact that when these people finally do retire - and it doesn't matter what sector or industry you look at - there will be very little in the way of leadership ready to step up to the plate.

Many organizations - government bodies included - are perfectly well aware that they are going to have succession challenges in the next 5 to 10 years. For whatever reason, they are reluctant to look at this and take the necessary steps to ensure that there will be a reasonably smooth transition from old to new. The potential for a real mess exists and I wonder how we are going to get organizations to start to take steps for succession planning.

Any thoughts or ideas?

[cakadu]

During my years on both the Ag Service Board and Council I always felt that the ASB or the Planning Commission were good 'training grounds' for potential councillors. That opinion wasn't shared by my colleagues as they considered anyone from their own division a threat to their position on council. Getting interested people to sit on committees of council or any organization and having them learn the ropes will certainly be an asset should they decide to run for elected office or a position on the executive of any organization.
Over the years in our community and I am sure every other, there are a few people that carry the workload in most of the organizations. Our Ag Society is a prime example. Several people have been the executive for years and one by one have 'burned out', leaving without 'growing' their replacement.
Unfortunately some of the initiatives that the Ag Society undertook are starting to fall by the wayside due to inexperienced people at the helm.
Community associations in rural AB usually have the same folks doing the lions share of the work for years and years. In all the events I have attended across rural AB., that took place in small community halls it seems as though the folks doing the work are the older members of the community.
When they are no longer able to carry the load and do the catering, hall cleaning and all the other things associated with keeping the community going, it seems as though many of these communities get stagnent fairly fast.

With the rising cost of utilities and maintenance many community halls are having a tough time keeping their doors open, and their facilities in good repair. A good volunteer mix of experience and new blood is a wonderful asset if it can be accomplished.

[cowman]

On our local council there is only one woman and she has been there for a long time, like 15 years or something!
Now some people say she has been there too long but the fact of the matter is she gets things done! You have a problem...she'll do her best to get it fixed! I can only remember one other woman councillor...from the same division...hmmm must be an enlightened bunch out there in division three?
In the last election we had a long time councillor who retired. In my opinion he was a very good sensible councillor who really took care of the people in his area. We have a few "newbies" this time out and they seem to be trying very hard and have brought forward some new ideas. We also have one guy who stirs the pot and a lot of people don't like him. He usually is at odds with other members on the council! But having talked to him on many occasions I believe he adds a whole lot to the equation! He basically is a check on the more outlandish ideas and spendthrift philosophy of county council!
We had another councillor who was a media hound and had his eyes on bigger things, who stirred the pot all the time and made life miserable for everyone else on the council...luckily he got the boot last election!

[cakadu]

Emrald, I agree with the assessment you have given regarding both the councillors and the way things shape up in the rural community.

Having said that though, there are many times when new people want to get involved in various things in the community, but the long-time volunteers believe that only they know how to "get it done right" and there is only so much of that kind of thinking that people will put up with before they move on to other things. There has to be a willingness on the part of everyone to give a little in order to see the succession happen. New volunteers should not give up so quickly and older volunteers should be willing to recognize that there are new ways of doing things and new ideas that will come forward. Many of the smaller community organizations and events are falling by the wayside because there is a reluctance to try new things. There is only so many times that people will come and see or do the same thing.

Cowman, my own belief is that no matter how good a person is at what they do - be it volunteer, council etc, there comes a time when a successor must be trained (if a willing person exists) and the incumbent person move on. New blood, new ideas and a different perspective from which to view things is generally a good thing.

Emrald, some councillors have a real problem with having someone do more in their own area or division - unless the councillor knows that they have the person's full support and will not be a challenge to their seat. I know of one councillor who will actually say "I suppose you want MY seat" at the council table.

No matter if there is mandatory retirement or voluntary retirement, we need succession built in in order for organizations, companies, groups, associations etc. to continue to sustain themselves into the future.

[cakadu]

Linda, municipal politics should not be a make work project for councillors, but having said that, I know many councillors that have served numerous terms and are respected, hard working and keep current with trends, acts and regulations. Believe me they have stood the test of time, likely worked for almost no reneumeration for many years and have kept their municipalities out of hot water. On the other hand I have seen many cases of new councillors coming to the table with a hidden agenda, thinking that they know better than some that served the municipality well for years, making changes without consulting the public and gotten their municipality in a total wreck. I know I sound like a stuck record ( or CD as the case may be!) but a good mix of experience, new ideas and common sense on council and in administration results in a successfully run municipality.
Cowman I know every councillor that you speak of and you hit the nail on the head !!!! Your councillor is one heck of a nice lady, she is there for the good of the people not for personal gain. The councillor that got the boot was a mouthpiece if I ever saw one !!!!!

[cowman]

Linda: A councillor is elected. The people decide who they want. If new ideas are worthy then that person will get elected? Well if they can get it across that is! My councillor gives 100% effort, is not afraid to speak her mind, and gets results! Some people don't like her but everytime she is voted back in! She is old, she is cranky, she tells it how she sees it...my kind of gal!
Should a councillor step aside to let someone else have a crack at the job? Your former councillor just did that...although he told me he was also sick of the infighting that went on in the last council and had just had enough! He was blatantly called a liar at a town hall meeting and he was very offended...and I don't blame him one bit! I have found Elmer to always be a man of honor and a decent honest gentleman. Who needs that kind of crap?

[cowman]

In my view it takes at least two terms on a council to really be comfortable with ones knowledge of all aspects of the position. If you look around the province you will note that the councils that are constantly changing due to the public defeating candidates on a regular basis you will see municipalities with no consistency or vision because their elected officials aren't around long enough to develop any.
Any good councillor will row their replacement and likely will commence doing so in the last two years of their term when they decide they want to step aside. Any elected official that cares about their municipality will want to see good people in place and will seek out a good replacement.

[cakadu]

Both of you make very valid points and I think two or three terms does make sense in order to be of some value and effectiveness for the people who voted you in.

Coweman, the councillor you speak of also had other considerations that had to do more with his personal life. I have always liked him and found him to be decent and willing to talk, even explain a few things so that a person really understood what was happening.

My experience has been that some councillors are there for their own personal agendas, do not walk the talk that got them there and guard their "empire" with a pitbull mentality because it means everything to them. It's too bad more of them weren't willing to groom a successor as that would ensure that good people do stay around. I know of one elected official who put in his papers just before (or after, depending on who tells the story) the noon cut off and ended up with the mayor's job. Best person - who knows, but this person was the only one who filed papers so only time will tell.

The discussion should be broader than just elected people because we all know of people running organizations - whether for profit or not for profit - companies etc. that should have left a long time ago except they cannot see anyone else running the company.

I have a friend who is leaving her job after 5 years of helping to build the company up. She is now stepping aside for someone to take it in a new direction because she feels she has done all she can for the company. She has some good people around her, so it should be a fairly smooth transition. I give her credit for knowing herself well enough to know when it is time to leave.

We need more people that can think like that instead of with their egos.

The big thing with the retirement is that you have to have something to fill that "void". Maybe that's why so many ex-government employees become "consultants" and get hired back by the government. It seems to me that when you go to the same well you get the same water.