Getting religion

[cakadu]

Linda there is an inquiry over the Grewal affair but with the media in their hip pocket of course it isn't getting any air time, and won't be completed until fall when there will or will not be an election depending on what Martin has for breakfast on any given day. I think Belinda did a number on the Conservatives because she could not see the leadership coming to her and wanted power if nothing else, and I don't think her being there or being gone will make one bit of difference in the next election.

I know many former politians and current ones, and the ones I know are aa sick of the federal mess as I am sure most of western Canada is.

I know that our province gets a damn poor deal from confederation and with the current thinking in Ottawa it is not going to change.

[silverback]

Cakadu, if you are waiting for the media in this country to take the time to try and explain what the policies of every party is to you, you are going to be pushing daisies waiting. If you really want to know what Harper or any of the others think, why don't you just phone him? Write a letter? Send an email instead of bitching on here? I have a feeling that he might be the only leader to give you an answer.

And quit whinning about the timing of the tapes or what is wrong with them. The full transcript is out there if you want to read it.

I think the problem the Conservatives are having in breaking ground in Ontario is that the original goals of the Reform/Alliance party was to go down there and clean house. Change was a goal many wanted. The problem is that the Government has made government so bloody big that 1/3 of the people (or more) have some interest in seeing things stay the same as they are. If Harper stood up and said he was going to cut 15% of the government down and the waste that goes with it, can you imagine how they would hang him for that down there? Nobody wants to see a friend looking for work, so better not vote for that!

[silverback]

silverback, you make some excellent points, and so do others on this topic. I think we are all fed up with scandals, headlines etc, and would like to see fair, common sense government. The media is going to do everything it can to make Harper look like a buffoon so we will likely never know what he is capable of doing for the country.

[FarmRanger]

Cakadu, even if the Grewels were considering taking up with the Liberals, that doesn’t absolve the Liberals of trying to buy people in this fashion, just because the offer wasn’t accepted. Its pretty clear Belinda accepted an offer of exactly what she obviously wanted, position and power. And yet nobody questions her character, except us few voices in the wilderness.
The bribery/fraud thing is off the radar screen all right, but more likely because of the way it has bit the Conservatives in the rear. Its only getting them bad media coverage, because the focus has been put on the Conservative Grewels, and not on the Liberal bribery. Is there anything further to gain by pursuing it? It’s like a **** victim accused of being the aggressor; if her reputation isn’t impeccable, the defense lawyer has a field day grinding her character into the dirt. And unfortunately the media is only too willing to go along with this same line of thinking to help protect the Liberal government.
I’m just speculating here, but does anyone seriously think the media wouldn’t have sharpened up the knives for any right wing government caught bribing someone to cross the floor?

[silverback]

The manner in which the Liberal party operates makes the Watergate scandal look like a tea party.

Just like an onion, to get to the middle of the corruption you have to go through a lot of layers. (Or is it Lawyers?)

[silverback]

And a lot of tears of frustration !!!!!
I really don't care what party is in power, I just respect honest, common sense government who are there to serve the people, and I haven't seen much of that happening federally lately.
Martin was on the news saying he is going to have a very direct conversation with Bush about Global Warming. If it doesn't do anymore good than any 'talk' he has had about BSE then he may as well save his air !!!

[cakadu]

Amen to that emrald.

I would like to see as much change as the next person and would like the antics of our so-called leadership and leaders to come to an end. Everyone is wanting to see leadership that will amount to something positive and do some good - myself included. I don't believe the Liberals should be absolved and they should be made to pay the piper - any and all who were involved.

I have said many times on this site that I believe that a lot of really good folks go forward and want to try and make the country a better place - it is the political machine that swallows them up, good intentions or not. For the majority of us sitting on the outside, we have no idea of what it is like to be on the inside in a political party at the federal level. Maybe that is why some of the good ones get out - before they get corrupted themselves or because they weary of trying to be effective at representing what their constituents want.

By exchanging ideas and opinions, we gain more insight and I have learned from what people have posted. For me, as it likely is for many of you, it is inconceivable that one would sell themselves out, but it happens around us every day and that is truly sad.

[farmers_son]

Check out the Ethics Commissioners home page at:http://www.parl.gc.ca/oec-bce/site/pages/ethics-e.htm

I would suggest that “the goods ones get out” or put another way people of good character and ability choose not to stay in politics or more likely not to enter politics because of the kind of ill informed, partisan, thoughtless, disrespectful attacks on their character that we see peppered throughout this thread.

Federal politics seem to have reached a new level of dirty deeds. Not that the politicians are corrupted but there is no conscience, limits or honor on the part of the opposition parties in what they will or will not do to smear the party in power.

Implied in the remarks I read here is a rather automatic assumption that a Minister in the Federal government is corrupt or he would not be there. Remarks like good people go forward but they get swallowed up or politicians sell out everyday are part of the problem. That kind of attitude/stigma would tend to keep a lot of people from participating in politics that otherwise would have made a great contribution.

While many seem to see corruption everywhere they turn in the last while I saw examples of MPs displaying examples of very high moral character. Has everyone forgotten Chuck Cadman who represented his constituents in the budget vote when he could have sought personal gain. Or Joe Comuzzi, the Minister of State for Economic Development who resigned his cabinet position because he had promised his constituents to oppose gay marriage.

[silverback]

There is a pretty big difference in smearing someone and disagreeing with the policies or antics someone is displaying.

Tell us where your liberal party is being "smeared"?

If I think back, I would say that calling the conservatives "scary", religous extremists", or "dangerous" is smearing.

Sorry if I am ill-informed f_s. I can only hope to aspire to your level of tolerance and wisdom in the way federal politics is performed.

[silverback]

Smearing isn't just something that happens to federal politicians. Many good folks have gotten out of municipal politics because of the smear campaigns against them if they don't vote the way certain sectors of the public think they should.
I think that the federal government should set the bar extremely high in the calibre and conduct of politicians, beaurocrats etc., but it isn't happening. We all know that one rotten apple should not spoil the barrel but the rotten apples seem to outnumber the good ones by far in federal politics.

[FarmRanger]

You are right about politicians getting their character attacked, but don’t just think it’s the opposition parties who are responsible, f_s. If you are running as a Conservative, you’d better be prepared to be called names if you dare to take any kind of moral stand on an issue. Don’t even mention paying down the debt with good fiscal policy, as that is just double speak right wing hidden agenda (give me a break). If you want meaningful improvement to the health care system, you must be wanting American style health care. All the name calling that goes on in parliament, on BOTH sides, just shuts down debate of ideas, and we just get more of the same policies. Useful input isn’t allowed from anyone opposing any of the governments ideas.
The way the same-sex marriage legislation was rammed through was disgraceful. Its no small wonder Joe Comuzzi resigned. Its more surprising that he was the only one. In 2003, Comuzzi and six future cabinet colleagues were still backbenchers when they voted for a Canadian Alliance motion favouring the traditional definition of marriage. The others have decided to support the controversial Bill C-38 instead of giving up their cabinet seats. Most Liberals have at some point opposed same-sex marriage in a series of Commons votes since 1999, when the government was still fighting same-sex marriage in court. In 2003 current ministers Joe Fontana, John Efford, Albina Guarnieri, Joe McGuire and Joe Volpe voted with Comuzzi against same-sex marriage. Paul Martin had promised to have public hearings, but didn’t follow through. He had to quickly get attention diverted from Gomery. It worked, but little thought was given to the long term consequences, or the wishes of the majority of Canadians.
I believe that the Liberal MPs that you know may indeed be decent people f_s. I am not knocking your ability to judge character, but don’t rule out that they might not all be quite as upstanding as you think. Political expediency seems to take precedence of good governing, and part of politics is glad handing the public who put them there. A big smile, friendly talk and a firm handshake doesn’t mean they are looking out for your best interests. Ignoring your constituents wishes in order to please the Prime Minister, resembles self serving ambition more than good democratic rule.
It’s also interesting that the 2 morally upstanding MPs you mentioned either voted against the government or left the party. Where were rest of them?

[farmers_son]

I think we will have to agree to disagree on the bad apples outnumbering the good apples.

Given the comments that have been made, I wonder if one of our children decided to run for Member of Parliament, would we beam with pride or would we discourge them because of the personal price they would pay. I ask because my son very seriously considered filing his papers as an independent candidate in the last Federal election and I encouraged him. I was thinking it would have been a fabulous experience, but maybe not.

He would not have won of course, as this is Alberta, but the comments here certainly highlight the price he would have paid personally just for putting in his candidacy, forget what would happen if he had got elected.