Train Incident

[redhen]

Would be interested in hearing your comments regarding the Wabumun train disaster.
It sounds as though nobody had a plan in place to deal with this sort of emergency.
Was it the responsibility of CN to ensure they had a plan in place and that the county, village and Province knew what it was and had approved it ?
Was it the responsiblity of the province to be fully aware of what was being hauled on the train at all times and demand an emergency response plan similar to that of any trucking company hauling dangerous goods ?

[farmers_son]

It will be interesting see what comes out of that disaster. Railways tend to operate under their own rules, with their own police etc. Railways like CN operate under federal jurisdiction while the province has jurisdiction over the environment. So just what the province can demand from CN will remain to be seen. We need to keep in mind that the trains can through many provinces on a single train run, at some point meeting envirnomental rules becomes a barrier to interprovincial trade.

It would not surprise me to see the province pick up the tab for at least part of the clean up effort. Guy Boutilier, Alberta's Environment Minister will not likely come out the winner if he starts a war with CN.

I recall when the railroads abandoned their old right of ways that no environmental rules really applied, I expect the same this time.

[cakadu]

Would the Department of Fisheries and Oceans (DFO) not have something to say here and have some jurisdiction? I haven't heard that they have yet weighed in on things, so maybe they don't.

[cakadu]

I think the main concern here apart from the actual disaster to the lake, wildlife etc. should be the absolute lack of any sort of emergency response plan by either the Province or CN. The Premier has said there WILL be one in the future. No matter where the blame likes it is still going to take years to get the lake back in shape, and property values will be plunging as will the dollars injected into the area economy from those who use the lake for recreation.

[cowman]

Probably not a big deal? Looks like they've got it under control and you'll never noticed anything happened in a year or so! I doubt property values will drop much? More like chicken Littles yelling the sky is falling?
Things happen? Rail cars get derailed, traffic accidents happen, planes crash? Just part of living in a modern society.

[cowman]

I have to disagree with that statement. If you have had the opportunity to drive through Wabumun as I have in the past week you would certainly see that it is a big deal. Remember, CN rail lines are adjacent to rivers, lakes and communities all across the country. Any derailment has the potential for a huge disaster. Whether or not the lake returns to normal in a year or two is not the issue, its whether or not carriers such as CN are going to have to comply with the same regs that carriers of hazardous goods in the oil patch do. For God sake, hog farmers have to have a plan in place if their liquid manure storage happens to breech, so why wouldn't CN have to be equally as responsible as a small ma and pa hog operation ???

[cakadu]

The province has no emergency plan in place either and given the way you've described it, emrald, I would say that it is, or rather should be, a huge concern.

Of interest to watch will be a hog lagoon in upper New York State that broke and tens of thousands of litres of liquid manure got into a river that flows into Lake Ontario. The flow from the river is expected to hit the lake within days. Think of the potential for phosphorous bloom that there will be.

As we move more of any of these substances around we should be thinking about disaster plans.

[cowman]

Well what do you need for an emergency plan? Do you need to designate who will go get the coffee and donuts sort of thing? And I wonder how much it might cost? And who pays? If it is CPR or CN you can just bet your boots it will be the rail users who end up paying the bill...probably with a hefty "administration" fee tacked on by the railroads!
When any disaster happens the appropriate people come together and get the job done...usually firemen and cops? I doubt we need a bunch of government hacks sitting around debating "plans" and spending a small fortune doing it? In the real world they are just more dead weight doing make work!
How about instead having a few of them off their butts out inspecting rail lines to make sure they are not falling apart? We don't need more office boys, but more men out working and getting their hands dirty.

[cowman]

Linda, it was actually a dairy lagoon that breeched and if there had been appropriate regs in place and ongong monitoring that likely would not have happened. I know cowman does not like regs but the AOPA legislation does give some comfort in AB. as all newly constructed or expanding operations must have environmental measures in place prior to animals entering their facilities. Monitoring wells can certainly assist in locating leaking lagoons, as can onsite inspections on a regular basis. In Alberta the industry seems to want to push back from monitoring or inspecting existing or grandfathered facilities and some of them may be the ones with less than state of the art technical checks and balances in effect.
As far as routine checks of rail lines I could not agree more. The lines are owned by CN and likely the province has no authority over them so it would be up to the feds to do the inspections. Lord knows, they are going to take a year and more to decide what they will fund in health care so it would be unlikely they will get out and start inspecting rail lines any day soon !!!
CN has made all sorts of promises, and taken out full page ads of apology but according to former CN employess cost cutting measures over the past few years have resulted in less than adequate track maintenance. I would venture to guess that the Wabumun incident could easily happen elsewhere and until somebody starts waving a big stick at CN I wonder how much more diligent they will be.

Cowman, I am sure you are well aware of what industry must have in place for emergency response plans and it involves a lot more than the cops and fire department. There are community evacuation plans in place for every sour gas well that is drilled in populated areas. Many municipalities require a copy of tne emergency response plan of any company that could potentially have an incident that could cause concern for public health and safety, these emergency response plans are forwarded to the regional Fire Chief for comments prior to the permit being issued.