Let¹s Get While the Gettins¹ Good

[farmers_son]

Wrong again, I do not support any political party.

Any comments on the amount of money Alberta received in federal transfer payments? I believe Alberta was fourth behind Ontario, Quebec and BC.

Just trying to get the facts straight.

[silverback]

If I understand the original article correctly, he states that 12 billion leaves Ab. every year. Right? (I am assuming that is all taxes combined?)Then the Liberals nicely give us back 4 billion? Is that what you are saying F-S? What does that difference make?? Is this the way you like it? That feels good to you does it?

[grassfarmer]

I'm with you farmers_son, and before anyone starts I'm neither a Liberal or NDP supporter. I'm a recent immigrant but love Alberta and then Canada in that order and feel that we should work for change within the current constitutional set-up rather than throw out the baby with the bath water.
Another good reason for Alberta not going it's own way would be to study the comments of some of the proposers of seperation on here! do we want to live in a "country" run by people like these? - I certainly don't.

[ivbinconned]

Glad you brought that up grassfarmer. I emphamphasize with your sentiment...BUT!

Under the constitutional amending formula Alberta is and will always remain a colony of central Canada...BECAUSE...any amendment that is of interest to Alberta as far as the division of government powers (ie. triple E senate)etc must meet the approval of either Ontario or Quebec and a total of 7 provinces!

If you know your history you will know that never in history has power been known to voluntarly give itself up. IT MUST be wrestled away.

As a new comer to this fine land it may take some time for you to appreciate the fact that western canada has repeatedly over the past 50 years produced, again and again, protest parties that dreamed...(denying reality) that they could keep the baby and just throw out the bath water.

But alas there is no end of people who don't dispute any of the facts raised in articles like I posted of the proffessor's, but rather attack those, who like me say...it is time to take a stand...if you we want to force a change.

It is the only way to even get your hands close to the bath tub.

[cowman]

Ivebinconned can get a little passionate about it but the fact is slowly the idea is coming across that the western Canadian people(Alberta in particular) are becoming disatisfied with the "arrangement" of Canadian confederation? The old western based parties wrestled some concessions out of Ottawa but control is firmly in the hands of our eastern masters!
And yet every people have a right to decide their own destiny and if the day ever comes when the majority want to leave it will happen? I would suggest we are slowly moving in that direction?
I believe the professor was very correct in saying now is the time to go if that is our intention? We can do it!
Consider this: A region with an abundance of natural resources. A super powerful neighbor that is our best customer and shares our philosphy of economics as well as social policy? We can have a very good relationship with them because our leaders won't be calling them bastards and morons!
No more sending our wealth down to Ottawa so they can prop up people too lazy to take care of themselves and curb their spending to their income!
The fact is we would be a lot better off both financially and in a social justice sense if we were a seperate and independent country?

[ivbinconned]

"knowing what to do with what we know is the true essence of learnng"

"The success of a movement is not determined by what we believe, but by what we do to make those convictions become a reality."

The definition of insanity..."doing the same thing and expecting different results!"

Thanks cowman. Reform, Alliance was just repeating CCF, NDP, Socreds, Progressives. I refuse to deny reality. The professor is just another of a long and growing list of people that are not pulling any punches in their analysis of the make up of this CON-federation.

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."

Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
German physicist, Nobel Prize winner

[farmers_son]

Which minds represent great spirits and which minds are mediocre has more to do with whether that particular mind agrees with your perspective or not rather than any quantitative or qualitative measure of intelligence.

[ivbinconned]

I take note that not one of you who take exception to the facts and conclusions expressed in the artical have challenged one thing that the professor writes.

Rather your response has been a knee jerk reaction of rejection, with no substance!

Juvenile!

[cowman]

Ivebinconned: You have to realize most Canadians have been brainwashed from an early age to be patriotic and believe we live in the best country in the world? The school system has taught us that as well as all our eastern based media?
The reality of the situation suggests otherwise but it seems we pathetically stand around waving little maple leaf flags and babbling about our great medi care system! After all the CBC said we were great, right?
Hopefully the message will get through when those paragons of virtue(the Liberal Party) are swept back into power with a majority in 2006? If that doesn't do it we might have to wait until they make a tax grab( in the national interest LOL) sometime in the near future, so they can buy off the Frenchmen!
Exciting times ahead for sure? Hopefully in Alberta we'll get rid of old Klein and get someone in who can't be bought off? Someone who will stand up for our freedom and independence?

[farmers_son]

Ivbinconned: I believe I put forward facts showing that Albertans receive money from Ottawa as well as send money to Ottawa.

I would point out that the numbers shown did not include federal contributions to federal/provincial ag programs which for Alberta in 2002,2003 and 2004 would amount to be in the billions of dollars for BSE and drought aid.

I would further point out that all you contributed was a rather unenlightened paste and some quotes taken out out context with no supporting facts of your own.

[ivbinconned]

F_S you have come late to the party. I have posted plenty in the past here dealing with this isssue as cowman could attest to.

Also any monies that have come from the feds to Alberta is just your own coming back...so whats your point.

As to the Quotes...what can I say...they have gone over your head.

For just a little taste of what I have posted before you came on board...

posted Sep 6, 2003 11:04

From 1991 to 1999, there was a 78%reduction in direct federal expenditures in support of the agri-food sector in Sask. and a 69% reduction for Alberta. In the same time period there was only a 27% reduction in Quebec. I am NOT bad mouthing the Quebec farmer but I do "bad mouth" a system that bleeds money from Alberta to "lavishly" support farms in another province. If Alberta farmers don't mind this at least you would think they would rise up and insist that the money goes to there neighboring province where there grandpa and uncles farm.
Now that is just the federal expenditures! What about the "lavish" support of Alberta dollars the Quebec farmer gets through their provincial government via federal transfers...hush-hush...were not supposed to know.
While I have seen my Saskatchewan assets drop in value 50% in the last 10 to 15 years, in Quebec the high level of Quebec government support is a major reason why average net worth of grain and oil seed producers increased 51.3% compared to 12.7 per cent in Ontario from 93 to 97; during the same period, average assets in Quebec increased by 53.5 per cent compared to 15.8% in Ontario.
When total crop receipts for Quebec were just $1.3 billion as compared to Ontario’s $3.1 billion the Quebec Ag ministry spent $527 million while Ontario's spent just $372 million! Neat what you can do as a "have not" province while Alberta sleeps.

I have said it before in these threads, what does a pick pocket do? He makes you look the other way! So we are told to look and blame the U.S. and Europe, while with in our own country the 21 year old Quebec ASRA programs (indirectly funded with ALBERTA money) heaps impressive benefits on, for example, in Quebec a 780 acre corn grower over a 9 year period ending in 99 amounted to $580,000, or an average of $64,445 per year with a 99 provision of $99,480! Not bad eh!
This program now includes all ag production and guess what, it is acreage based, cost of production based, and also has an interesting aspect to it in that the benefits are based on 90% of a skilled workers wages in Quebec, ie. nurse, teacher, government employees, etc.

Could this be why the average age of farmers in Quebec is much lower than say Saskatchewan?

Could it be that a net payout in 1999 of $120.00 per acre (over and above his crop)of barley to a Quebec farmer is why he could afford to send us that load of hay that the Canadian Alliance got so excited about and we where all supposed to feel so warm and fuzzy about. Give me a break

[ivbinconned]

Heres some more F_S...

When the redistribution of Alberta's wealth (which was not gained because of government...BUT in spite of government) is doled out to another province in the way I spelled it out ($120.00 per acre!!). We should be out raged. This is not charity, this is highway robbery! This is why they always tell us to blame the U.S. and Europe and everybody else! Make you look the other way.
This is what happens when there is a transfer of wealth from government to government instead of person to person...with the constitutionally entrenched equalization system today a family in Alberta with an income of $30,000 to $40,000 contribute about $3,150; a Newfoundland family with income of more than $100,000.00 gets a benefit of $1200.00!!
This is taking from the truck diver in Alberta and giving to the Doctor in the East.
This is taking from the guy that fixes your car in a Alberta and giving it to a lawyer in P.E.I.
Maybe Albertans think this is cool...but then again do they really know the extent of this scam?
Do they have the courage to do something about it??


You might as well take down that flag F_S and put up that Alberta flag...youvbinconned