Let¹s Get While the Gettins¹ Good

[farmers_son]

For goodness sakes, I am not a Liberal, never have been and don’t expect to ever be. I have never had a membership in the Liberal party and can’t imagine I ever will.

However I am a Canadian. I do not think of myself as an Albertan even though I happen to live in Alberta. I have a Canadian flag on the side of our house, not an Alberta flag.

Total federal revenues for 2005 are projected to be 195 billion dollars. All of that money was sourced from one province or another. I do not recall seeing statistics showing federal revenues broken down by province but if Albertans and corporations in this province paid 9.3 or 10 billion in federal taxes that would not seem like a lot when compared to 195 billion country wide.

The Government of Canada provides financial support to the provincial and territorial governments most notably through the Canada Health Transfer (CHT), the Canada Social Transfer (CST), Equalization and Territorial Formula Financing (TFF).
Alberta does get federal transfer payments for health care, agriculture and so on exceeding 4 billion annually but not equalization payments. Just like Ontario although Ontario got more transfer payments than any other province even without equalization. If anyone is willing to look at the facts here are what the provinces received in total federal transfers in 2004-2005:

Alberta 4.3 Billion
BC 6.1 Billion
Yukon .5 Billion
NWT 0.7 Billion
Nunavut 0.8 Billion
Newfoundland and Labrador 1.3 Billion
PEI 0.4 Billion
Nova Scotia 2.4 Billion
New Brunswick 2.2 Billion
Quebec 13.8 Billion
Ontario 16.7 Billion
Manitoba 3.0 Billion
Saskatchewan 2.8 Billion

See:
http://www.fin.gc.ca/FEDPROV/fedprov-e.html

Equalization is just what it takes to make Canada work.

I think the oil and gas revenues will decline in the very foreseeable future. Alberta collected equalization payments prior to the 1970s and likely we will again.

[ivbinconned]

"For goodness sakes, I am not a Liberal, never have been and don’t expect to ever be. I have never had a membership in the Liberal party and can’t imagine I ever will.

However I am a Canadian. I do not think of myself as an Albertan even though I happen to live in Alberta. I have a Canadian flag on the side of our house, not an Alberta flag."

Interesting how you NDPer's debate.

You start out loudly telling us that you are not a Liberal...then jump to telling us you are a Canadian...duh.

One is not the opposite of the other!!

If you think you are dazzeling us with your prowess at pulling stuff off of government web sites and then posting it here...well...knock yourself out.

[farmers_son]

Wrong again, I do not support any political party.

Any comments on the amount of money Alberta received in federal transfer payments? I believe Alberta was fourth behind Ontario, Quebec and BC.

Just trying to get the facts straight.

[silverback]

If I understand the original article correctly, he states that 12 billion leaves Ab. every year. Right? (I am assuming that is all taxes combined?)Then the Liberals nicely give us back 4 billion? Is that what you are saying F-S? What does that difference make?? Is this the way you like it? That feels good to you does it?

[grassfarmer]

I'm with you farmers_son, and before anyone starts I'm neither a Liberal or NDP supporter. I'm a recent immigrant but love Alberta and then Canada in that order and feel that we should work for change within the current constitutional set-up rather than throw out the baby with the bath water.
Another good reason for Alberta not going it's own way would be to study the comments of some of the proposers of seperation on here! do we want to live in a "country" run by people like these? - I certainly don't.

[ivbinconned]

Glad you brought that up grassfarmer. I emphamphasize with your sentiment...BUT!

Under the constitutional amending formula Alberta is and will always remain a colony of central Canada...BECAUSE...any amendment that is of interest to Alberta as far as the division of government powers (ie. triple E senate)etc must meet the approval of either Ontario or Quebec and a total of 7 provinces!

If you know your history you will know that never in history has power been known to voluntarly give itself up. IT MUST be wrestled away.

As a new comer to this fine land it may take some time for you to appreciate the fact that western canada has repeatedly over the past 50 years produced, again and again, protest parties that dreamed...(denying reality) that they could keep the baby and just throw out the bath water.

But alas there is no end of people who don't dispute any of the facts raised in articles like I posted of the proffessor's, but rather attack those, who like me say...it is time to take a stand...if you we want to force a change.

It is the only way to even get your hands close to the bath tub.

[cowman]

Ivebinconned can get a little passionate about it but the fact is slowly the idea is coming across that the western Canadian people(Alberta in particular) are becoming disatisfied with the "arrangement" of Canadian confederation? The old western based parties wrestled some concessions out of Ottawa but control is firmly in the hands of our eastern masters!
And yet every people have a right to decide their own destiny and if the day ever comes when the majority want to leave it will happen? I would suggest we are slowly moving in that direction?
I believe the professor was very correct in saying now is the time to go if that is our intention? We can do it!
Consider this: A region with an abundance of natural resources. A super powerful neighbor that is our best customer and shares our philosphy of economics as well as social policy? We can have a very good relationship with them because our leaders won't be calling them bastards and morons!
No more sending our wealth down to Ottawa so they can prop up people too lazy to take care of themselves and curb their spending to their income!
The fact is we would be a lot better off both financially and in a social justice sense if we were a seperate and independent country?

[ivbinconned]

"knowing what to do with what we know is the true essence of learnng"

"The success of a movement is not determined by what we believe, but by what we do to make those convictions become a reality."

The definition of insanity..."doing the same thing and expecting different results!"

Thanks cowman. Reform, Alliance was just repeating CCF, NDP, Socreds, Progressives. I refuse to deny reality. The professor is just another of a long and growing list of people that are not pulling any punches in their analysis of the make up of this CON-federation.

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."

Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
German physicist, Nobel Prize winner

[farmers_son]

Which minds represent great spirits and which minds are mediocre has more to do with whether that particular mind agrees with your perspective or not rather than any quantitative or qualitative measure of intelligence.

[ivbinconned]

I take note that not one of you who take exception to the facts and conclusions expressed in the artical have challenged one thing that the professor writes.

Rather your response has been a knee jerk reaction of rejection, with no substance!

Juvenile!