How would we deal with Disaster ?

[FarmRanger]

Fortunately for the Americans are their corporate taxes low. Something the left has never understood is that corporations are not some fat guy sitting around smoking cigars and drinking sherry. Corporations are pieces of paper. They are run by people who pay taxes on anything they receive from the corporation.
Taxing corporations results in those same people never receiving the money that they collectively earned by either investing in, or for working as an employee. It also results in weakening the competitiveness of the company in a ever increasingly competitive world. Increasing corporate taxes takes money away from where corporate employees and shareholder would spend it (after being taxed at the higher marginal tax rate of the individual involved).
The United States wouldn’t have more tax money available if it raised corporate taxes, it would have less. For all the faults the American government has, not understanding this principle is not one of them. It always amazes me how the left either refuses to acknowledge this, or likes having the corporate bogey man to blame all the world’s ills on.

[farmers_son]

Whether the U.S. taxes its corporations or its citizens there is still the question of where the money is spent.

The United States spends 3-4% of its GDP on military spending as compared to Canada at 1%. The United States spends more on the military than the next ten largest defense spending countries combined. In fact in 2002 the U.S. spent almost as much on “defense” spending as the worlds 25 next largest military defense spending countries combined. Canada is included in this group. Since then the U.S. has started the war in Iraq; one would expect "defense" spending has increased even more. If people wonder where the money went that could have been spent on upgrading the levees you do not have to look any farther than the military.

Please see: http://www.fas.org/man/crs/RL32209.pdf

I am sure many are asking if New Orleans had a larger white population if upgrading the levees would be a higher priority. New Orleans is 67% black, only 28% white. Median income for a household is $27,000. 24% of the population live below the poverty line. Poor and black.

[farmers_son]

My understanding is the local government plays a large role in allocating priorities for infrastructure spending. If the demands were for schools, roadways, parks etc. and enforcing the levee, one would wonder how much pressure would come from the citizens for the 'soft' services vs infrastructure. I only have to look to our local urban centre where new parks and recreation facilities are built on an annual basis but for years the sewer lines weren't checked with cameras due to cost. The public demanded recreational facilities and there was only so much money to spend. I am willing to bet that there were choices made in New Orleans based on demands from the population. It appears that the majority of the decision makers in local government are black so I would doubt that they would be biased regarding how the money was spent vs how it would have been spent had the majority of the population been white.

Black vs white isn't even an issue as far as I can see, the main thing is that there are people that need help. Blame will be placed somewhere for the levee and lack of emergency response from the federal government in a timely manner but blame is not going to bring back those who werwe lost nor is it going to rebuild peoples lives. It will be a case of every able bodied citizen pitching in and forgetting color or blame if the gulf communities are ever going to rebuild.

[cowman]

Apparently New Orleans was sort of a "welfare row" where politicians encouraged the poor to live! A good solid voting block for the corrupt Democratic politicians that run Louisianna? Probably would make more sense to bulldoze a lot of it and forget about rebuilding.
Farm Ranger: I agree totally with you about the corporation thing! You should be careful what you say or you might be branded a corporation bootlicker or a packer lover! Whenever I say a corporation is just taking care of business by operating within the law, I usually get blasted! And if I further state the shareholders should expect the corporation to make as much money as possible and turn a profit, I am labelled a right wing Nazi or something!
I find it totally strange that people think a corporation is evil, because they operate within the law? If the law is basically flawed then it is the government to blame for not amending the law...not the corporation?
There are a few on here who have a decided left wing bent, which is okay I guess...but I find it strange that they tend to always blame big business(and the USA) for all the worlds woes? The fact is the likes of Cargill and Tyson and Walmart got where they are because they are more efficient and better businessmen than their competitors?

[farmers_son]

In the United States, the US corps of army engineers, is responsible for maintaining flood defences. The corps has long wanted to strengthen some of the levees which have been sinking. But according to local media, it was last year refused extra funding by the White House which wanted to save money to pay for homeland security against terrorism. "In its budget, the Bush administration proposed a significant reduction in funding for south-east Louisiana's chief hurricane protection project.

In June 2004, the corps' project manager, Al Naomi, went before a local agency, the East Jefferson Levee Authority, and requested $2m for "urgent work" that Washington was now unable to pay for. "The levees are sinking," he said. "Everything is sinking, and if we don't get the money fast enough to raise them, then we can't stay ahead of the settlement."
Last year Walter Maestri, emergency chief for Jefferson Parish, Louisiana, one of the worst affected areas, reportedly told the Times-Picayune newspaper: "It appears that the money [for strengthening levees against hurricanes] has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can't be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us."

Professor Dumas added that not enough provision seemed to have been made for poor people. "There doesn't seem to have been much attention paid to people who didn't have private automobiles," he said. "I didn't hear anything about school buses or city buses being used to aim people out of town." He said that there appeared to be little forward planning to cater to those on low incomes who would be unable to return to their homes for up to two months but who would not have the money to pay for that time in a hotel. "The Department of Homeland Security says on its website that it deals with natural disasters," he said. "They don't seem to have done a very good job. There doesn't seem to have been any long-term planning."

The war in Iraq was also being seen as playing a part in the federal response to the crisis. Many members of the National Guard who would normally have been swiftly mobilised to help in evacuation are on duty in Iraq. Although US air force, navy and army units were deployed to assist, the locally-based National Guard is depleted by the demands of the war.

Please see:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1560351,00.html#article_continue

[farmers_son]

Cowman: When you say there are a few on here who have a left wing bent, do you include me? You would be very wrong. I am probably the most right wing person here and have a decidedly business oriented background. I do not think a corporation is evil because it operates within the law. However I am not so naïve to think that sometimes corporations operate outside of the law and some corporations operate outside of the law all the time. Would you say Enron and Worldcom were law-abiding? Corporations need to respect the law too.

“The fact is the likes of Cargill and Tyson and Walmart got where they are because they are more efficient and better businessmen than their competitors?” That could be true, but in Canada right now it could also be true these businesses are acting as monopolies. And if you appreciate the free market system you would know that monopolies cannot be allowed to exist in a free market or the market will fail. The Americans appreciate that better than we Canadians.

I have never branded you or anyone else a packer lover, a corporation boot licker or Nazi. Please do not brand me left wing.

[FarmRanger]

Agreed that the U.S. should have spent more on the levee system, it’s fairly obvious after the hurricane. I definitely don’t agree that this is some sinister collusion of the Bush administration with corporations to drown poor black people.
Cowman, I don’t think every corporation is run by benevolent people either. That’s why we have to put adequate laws in place to try to stop bad corporate behaviour. Taxing corporations out of existence won’t stop them, likely the opposite would occur. It just makes the people running them want to relocate (if possible) to where business conditions are more favorable.

Instead of badmouthing the Americans when they make mistakes and what are deemed to be mistakes by their detractors, why not work with them to make a favorable climate for business that benefits both countries. It seems we’d rather pick winners here (Bombardier), based on region rather than equitable treatment for all.

[FarmRanger]

FarmRanger I agree with you and would go so far as to say that we better not be too keen to point fingers until we know that all our own infrastructure is in good condition. We have seen cut backs in maintenance of highways in our own province and we have lots of bridges, that we rely on for transportation so we better hope that somebody is putting ample funding into maintaining them .

The Clinton administration was also involved in cutting back of funds for some of the work on the levees so I don't think that Bush and crew are totally to blame. I still feel that local governments must have some input so rather than point the finger at Bush I would suggest that we quit pointing fingers at anybody. The US will certainly take a horrible economic hit because of this hurricane and there may be more on the way. Instead of passing judgement we should thank our lucky stars and the man upstairs that we aren't likely to be in the same boat.

[farmers_son]

I merely pointed out the demographics of New Orleans and posed a question black and white Americans are already asking.

Our lucky stars has nothing to do with it. When you look at the billions the U.S. is spending on the military it is nothing less than obscene. As much or nearly as much as China, Russia, France, Japan, United Kingdom, Germany, Italy, Saudi Arabia, Brazil, Israel, Turkey, Spain, Canada, Australia, Taiwan, Netherlands, Indonesia, Greece, Mexico, Iran, Ukraine and North Korea combined. As much as the world next 25 largest military spenders in the world all totaled. Now I think that is a problem.

There is a reason why the money was not available to upgrade the levees, there are reasons why the response was so slow. It not a matter of how the U.S. taxes its corporations but the possibility that this crisis was caused by decades of irresponsible military spending that came at the sacrifice of Americas poor (and there are lots of poor in the United States e.g. 24% in New Orleans) cannot and should not be dismissed.

Not to bad mouth the Americans in their time of crisis. I for one have not forgotten the crisis they have caused us beef producers. But lives are at stake here and the issues are far more important. If I could arrange to be away to help with the relief effort I would go in a minute. The question posed was “Watching the situation unfold in the southern states and the horrible aftermath of Katrina makes me wonder how well equipped we are to deal with anything of that magnitiude in this province or country for that matter.” I am suggesting that Canada is better prepared because we have better priorities and a more balanced approach to where the money goes.

Who do the Americans think they are trying to impress with all that military spending? Well no is very impressed now are they. The grim reality is that Hurricanes and Typhoons happen all over the world all the time. Worse storms than Katrina happen every year somewhere in the world and no one has ever been brought to their knees like the Americans have in New Orleans. It is not a matter of there but for the grace of God or count our lucky stars. No nation can waste their resources on the extravagance of being the bullies of the world and not have it come home to roost.

[farmers_son]

In addition to the Canadian aid mentioned in the pasted news clip there is $5 million from the Province of Alberta, Celine Dion donated $1 million, Stronach has donated housing with a promise to build 300 homes. Tomorrow there are telethons to raise money for relief in the hurricane stricken areas. There will be more, too much to mention. Again, well done Canada. An example of how we deal with disaster.

WASHINGTON — President George W. Bush offered thanks Friday to Canada and other countries for their "outpouring of compassion" and substantial relief for the countless U.S. victims of hurricane Katrina.
Other Americans, too, are praising the variety of assistance from Canadians and the way it is being delivered. "In this time of struggle, the American people need to know we're not struggling alone," Bush said in Washington during the swearing-in for Karen Hughes, the State Department's new undersecretary for public diplomacy.
"I want to thank the world community for its prayers and for the offers of assistance that have come from all around the world. The outpouring of compassion and support has been substantial."
"Canada has sent ships with disaster supplies," the president said. "Air Canada's planes assisted in the evacuation."
Bush was referring to two aspects of the wide range of aid being provided by Canadians to the hurricane-struck areas and its hundreds of thousands of displaced people.
Three Canadian warships - the destroyer HMCS Athabaskan, frigates HMCS Ville de Quebec and HMCS Toronto - and the Coast Guard ship Sir William Alexander left Halifax on Tuesday packed with relief supplies, helicopters to deliver them, and about 1,000 Canadian Forces personnel ready for a variety of chores. They are expected to arrive off the U.S. Gulf Coast early next week.
Air Canada provided shuttle flights to help in the evacuation of about 25,000 people from New Orleans to San Antonio, Texas. The airline also used an Airbus passenger jet to fly a cargo of bottled water and relief supplies to New Orleans.
Canadian military planes have transported Canadian Red Cross and government officials to work in the disaster areas. Some 35 Canadian military divers are helping with inspecting dikes and clearing waterways. A shipment of supplies requested by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services has arrived in Atlanta from Canada. Donations are pouring in from the provinces.
The Vancouver Urban Search and Rescue Team quickly got down to work in St. Bernard Parish, about 30 kilometres east of New Orleans, rescuing 119 stranded people before the U.S. military took over this week. The team has returned to Vancouver, basking in plaudits from grateful Americans.
"I was actually hugged by the president of the parish, who is similar to the mayor, when we arrived," Tim Armstrong, the team's leader, reported late last week. "We were the first relief effort that made their way there."
Bernard Etzinger, spokesman for the Canadian Embassy in Washington, said messages of thanks have been arriving via e-mail, letters and telephone at consulates across the country.
Earlier this week, U.S. Ambassador David Wilkins effusively thanked Canada as well.
"The aid pouring from all across Canada has been truly overwhelming," Wilkins said in Vancouver. "Many countries are offering help, nobody more so than Canada ... You're at the top of the list and for that we will always be very grateful."
In Los Angeles, TV news anchor Hal Fishman of KTLA Channel 5 praised Canada's assistance on Thursday night, saying "the country has embraced us and offered support on myriad levels." He said other countries have extended aid, but Canada stands above the rest in terms of the types of support and the different sectors which have offered help.
"We've actually got utility crews in from Canada," said Gov. Haley Barbour of Mississippi.

[FarmRanger]

One man’s bully is another man’s protector. It all depends on who is on the receiving end. Just let the Gadaffis, Husseins and Bin Ladins of the world go about their business unmolested and we’ll see who the bullies really are. We in Canada and the rest of the free world enjoy some of the benefits of the U.S. “bullying” (your words F_S, not mine), maybe we should be a little less holier than though about military spending.

And to compare apples to apples in regards to New Orleans, how is the U.S. any more on its knees than any other country hit with an equivalent catastrophic event. Blowing over bamboo huts is a little different that what was lost in New Orleans. Holland had a similar disaster in 1953, where 1800 people were killed after dikes gave way under a tidal surge, not a hurricane. The dutch successfully re-engineered, rebuilt and have been able to avoid any similar tragedies since then, lets hope the U.S. can as well.

Canadas response has been commendable, but lets not get all puffed up about it. It’s just the decent thing to do.

And cheer up f_s, BSE is over! ;-)

[farmers_son]

Thought readers might be interested in this link of the worst storms in history; hurricans, cyclones, typhoons and blizzards.

http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0001441.html

One hurricane in 1776 reached as far North as Nova Scotia killing a total of 4170 people.