How would we deal with Disaster ?

[FarmRanger]

Agreed that the U.S. should have spent more on the levee system, it’s fairly obvious after the hurricane. I definitely don’t agree that this is some sinister collusion of the Bush administration with corporations to drown poor black people.
Cowman, I don’t think every corporation is run by benevolent people either. That’s why we have to put adequate laws in place to try to stop bad corporate behaviour. Taxing corporations out of existence won’t stop them, likely the opposite would occur. It just makes the people running them want to relocate (if possible) to where business conditions are more favorable.

Instead of badmouthing the Americans when they make mistakes and what are deemed to be mistakes by their detractors, why not work with them to make a favorable climate for business that benefits both countries. It seems we’d rather pick winners here (Bombardier), based on region rather than equitable treatment for all.

[FarmRanger]

FarmRanger I agree with you and would go so far as to say that we better not be too keen to point fingers until we know that all our own infrastructure is in good condition. We have seen cut backs in maintenance of highways in our own province and we have lots of bridges, that we rely on for transportation so we better hope that somebody is putting ample funding into maintaining them .

The Clinton administration was also involved in cutting back of funds for some of the work on the levees so I don't think that Bush and crew are totally to blame. I still feel that local governments must have some input so rather than point the finger at Bush I would suggest that we quit pointing fingers at anybody. The US will certainly take a horrible economic hit because of this hurricane and there may be more on the way. Instead of passing judgement we should thank our lucky stars and the man upstairs that we aren't likely to be in the same boat.

[farmers_son]

I merely pointed out the demographics of New Orleans and posed a question black and white Americans are already asking.

Our lucky stars has nothing to do with it. When you look at the billions the U.S. is spending on the military it is nothing less than obscene. As much or nearly as much as China, Russia, France, Japan, United Kingdom, Germany, Italy, Saudi Arabia, Brazil, Israel, Turkey, Spain, Canada, Australia, Taiwan, Netherlands, Indonesia, Greece, Mexico, Iran, Ukraine and North Korea combined. As much as the world next 25 largest military spenders in the world all totaled. Now I think that is a problem.

There is a reason why the money was not available to upgrade the levees, there are reasons why the response was so slow. It not a matter of how the U.S. taxes its corporations but the possibility that this crisis was caused by decades of irresponsible military spending that came at the sacrifice of Americas poor (and there are lots of poor in the United States e.g. 24% in New Orleans) cannot and should not be dismissed.

Not to bad mouth the Americans in their time of crisis. I for one have not forgotten the crisis they have caused us beef producers. But lives are at stake here and the issues are far more important. If I could arrange to be away to help with the relief effort I would go in a minute. The question posed was “Watching the situation unfold in the southern states and the horrible aftermath of Katrina makes me wonder how well equipped we are to deal with anything of that magnitiude in this province or country for that matter.” I am suggesting that Canada is better prepared because we have better priorities and a more balanced approach to where the money goes.

Who do the Americans think they are trying to impress with all that military spending? Well no is very impressed now are they. The grim reality is that Hurricanes and Typhoons happen all over the world all the time. Worse storms than Katrina happen every year somewhere in the world and no one has ever been brought to their knees like the Americans have in New Orleans. It is not a matter of there but for the grace of God or count our lucky stars. No nation can waste their resources on the extravagance of being the bullies of the world and not have it come home to roost.

[farmers_son]

In addition to the Canadian aid mentioned in the pasted news clip there is $5 million from the Province of Alberta, Celine Dion donated $1 million, Stronach has donated housing with a promise to build 300 homes. Tomorrow there are telethons to raise money for relief in the hurricane stricken areas. There will be more, too much to mention. Again, well done Canada. An example of how we deal with disaster.

WASHINGTON — President George W. Bush offered thanks Friday to Canada and other countries for their "outpouring of compassion" and substantial relief for the countless U.S. victims of hurricane Katrina.
Other Americans, too, are praising the variety of assistance from Canadians and the way it is being delivered. "In this time of struggle, the American people need to know we're not struggling alone," Bush said in Washington during the swearing-in for Karen Hughes, the State Department's new undersecretary for public diplomacy.
"I want to thank the world community for its prayers and for the offers of assistance that have come from all around the world. The outpouring of compassion and support has been substantial."
"Canada has sent ships with disaster supplies," the president said. "Air Canada's planes assisted in the evacuation."
Bush was referring to two aspects of the wide range of aid being provided by Canadians to the hurricane-struck areas and its hundreds of thousands of displaced people.
Three Canadian warships - the destroyer HMCS Athabaskan, frigates HMCS Ville de Quebec and HMCS Toronto - and the Coast Guard ship Sir William Alexander left Halifax on Tuesday packed with relief supplies, helicopters to deliver them, and about 1,000 Canadian Forces personnel ready for a variety of chores. They are expected to arrive off the U.S. Gulf Coast early next week.
Air Canada provided shuttle flights to help in the evacuation of about 25,000 people from New Orleans to San Antonio, Texas. The airline also used an Airbus passenger jet to fly a cargo of bottled water and relief supplies to New Orleans.
Canadian military planes have transported Canadian Red Cross and government officials to work in the disaster areas. Some 35 Canadian military divers are helping with inspecting dikes and clearing waterways. A shipment of supplies requested by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services has arrived in Atlanta from Canada. Donations are pouring in from the provinces.
The Vancouver Urban Search and Rescue Team quickly got down to work in St. Bernard Parish, about 30 kilometres east of New Orleans, rescuing 119 stranded people before the U.S. military took over this week. The team has returned to Vancouver, basking in plaudits from grateful Americans.
"I was actually hugged by the president of the parish, who is similar to the mayor, when we arrived," Tim Armstrong, the team's leader, reported late last week. "We were the first relief effort that made their way there."
Bernard Etzinger, spokesman for the Canadian Embassy in Washington, said messages of thanks have been arriving via e-mail, letters and telephone at consulates across the country.
Earlier this week, U.S. Ambassador David Wilkins effusively thanked Canada as well.
"The aid pouring from all across Canada has been truly overwhelming," Wilkins said in Vancouver. "Many countries are offering help, nobody more so than Canada ... You're at the top of the list and for that we will always be very grateful."
In Los Angeles, TV news anchor Hal Fishman of KTLA Channel 5 praised Canada's assistance on Thursday night, saying "the country has embraced us and offered support on myriad levels." He said other countries have extended aid, but Canada stands above the rest in terms of the types of support and the different sectors which have offered help.
"We've actually got utility crews in from Canada," said Gov. Haley Barbour of Mississippi.

[FarmRanger]

One man’s bully is another man’s protector. It all depends on who is on the receiving end. Just let the Gadaffis, Husseins and Bin Ladins of the world go about their business unmolested and we’ll see who the bullies really are. We in Canada and the rest of the free world enjoy some of the benefits of the U.S. “bullying” (your words F_S, not mine), maybe we should be a little less holier than though about military spending.

And to compare apples to apples in regards to New Orleans, how is the U.S. any more on its knees than any other country hit with an equivalent catastrophic event. Blowing over bamboo huts is a little different that what was lost in New Orleans. Holland had a similar disaster in 1953, where 1800 people were killed after dikes gave way under a tidal surge, not a hurricane. The dutch successfully re-engineered, rebuilt and have been able to avoid any similar tragedies since then, lets hope the U.S. can as well.

Canadas response has been commendable, but lets not get all puffed up about it. It’s just the decent thing to do.

And cheer up f_s, BSE is over! ;-)

[farmers_son]

Thought readers might be interested in this link of the worst storms in history; hurricans, cyclones, typhoons and blizzards.

http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0001441.html

One hurricane in 1776 reached as far North as Nova Scotia killing a total of 4170 people.

[farmers_son]

Good comments again FarmRanger, and again I say we can thank our lucky stars that we aren't dealing with a disaster in this country. I am pleased that we have offered as much assistance as possible, it is the right thing to do when peoples lives have been turned upside down . I doubt if any one of the people who are suffering the worst in this disaster had anything to do with our cattle crossing the border. Why any thinking person would try and equate or even allude to the two in the same breath just boggles my mind !!!
I hope our country never has to deal with anything of this magnitude .

[farmers_son]

Well emrald1, you are entitled to your opinion, as I am I. The basis of my comments is that the disaster in New Orleans had a whole lot less to do with the Hurricane which did not hit New Orleans directly (center hit Biloxi 60 miles to the east) rather a lack of funding for safety measures which should have been a priority in a city that is as much as 20 feet below sea level played a significant role in the disaster. Societal problems are making the situation worse.

I guess one could make the argument that the situation was bad luck, but that would ignore that bad planning played a role as well. One would think that if a city was built below sea level that the levee system would be a high priority. The evidence shows that in the United States military spending was a higher priority.

Emrald1, you said in an earlier post “I would assume that some of the looting was in desperation not because of a real criminal intent.” Certainly some of the looting was in desperation, but every gun store in New Orleans was completely looted. People do not eat guns. It is not possible to ignore the likelihood that some of dead in New Orleans died as a result of gunfire. Time and time again rescue efforts were delayed because the areas needed to be secured first. The evacuation of the Superdome was halted because people were firing at military helicopters. After the hurricane New Orleans was characterized more by urban warfare than by disaster relief. Mayor Nagin told a Mississippi television station that a police officer was shot and wounded when he surprised a looter Tuesday, but the officer was expected to recover.

For pictures see:

http://www.nppa.org/news_and_events/news/2005/09/hurricane2.html

In 1974 a cyclone destroyed the city of Darwin Australia. I have not been able to find similar evidence of urban warfare in Darwin, or for that matter evidence of any violence, as we see in New Orleans. While such violence may be expected in a third world country, in the first world countries I would say this kind of urban warfare after a weather crisis would be unique to the United States.

I am glad to see the support of nations like Canada. And while I am also glad we do not have a disaster in this country does any Canadian believe we would see violence and shooting like we see in New Orleans? It is not all a matter of bad luck. New Orleans is 10 days into the disaster and the violence is just starting to be under control. What we see in New Orleans has less to do with a hurricane and more to do with a society that has rot at its core.

[farmers_son]

I read this opinion piece in the Star Tribune that says it better than I could.

“Has the obsession with terrorism (which might happen but might be prevented) robbed funding from planning for natural disasters, which we know will happen?”

Jefferson Parish President [Mayor] Aaron Broussard's statement is to the point: "Bureaucracy has murdered people in the greater New Orleans area. And bureaucracy needs to stand trial before Congress today. So I'm asking Congress, please investigate this now. Take whatever idiot they have at the top of whatever agency and give me a better idiot. Give me a caring idiot. Give me a sensitive idiot. Just don't give me the same idiot." And let's find out what really went wrong; don't give us a whitewash that exonerates everyone in charge. We all saw the pictures and we're not buying it, not this time.

For the full article please see:

http://www.startribune.com/stories/1519/5606440.html

[silverback]

Why don't you quit posting all the anti-american articles you can find f_s, and go down to New Orleans and help the people that are victims of the evil bullies that form the American Gov't? You don't seem to have any other work to do these days other than look for articles and data.

And let me guess, your response will be "I am only repeating what many Americans are already saying".

What happened down there is awful, period. Nobody really thinks this kind of thing could happen, but it did.

And by the way, many out here could argue very successfully that there is a much more rotten core in the Canadian gov't than there is in Washington. Most countries in the world would not stand for the rot and corruption coming from the Liberal gov't and their beaurocrats. But I know you do f_s.

[FarmRanger]

Ok, we get it f_s, you think all of America’s ills are caused by American military spending.
So, if it just takes more money to make problems go away, why is it that Canada’s native reserves are such a disgrace? We throw pots of money in that direction, but poverty and suicide is still rampant. Check out the proportions of Canada’s natives in prisons, and then tell me we in Canada are morally superior in our handling of societies problems. This self aggrandizing arrogance is sickening and we wouldn’t tolerate it in others.

If Bush’s administration was caught illegally diverting millions of taxpayer’s dollars into Republican re-election coffers, we’d hear such an uproar it would be deafening. If it happens in Canada, we re-elect the crooks and smugly declare our moral superiority to our neighbors.
If the B.C. lower mainland sunk into the ocean, would we handle it better than we’ve seen in New Orleans? Let’s hope we never find out.

[FarmRanger]

farmers_son the fact of the matter is that of course there is more crime in the US compared to Canada, their damn population is ten times ours for gosh sake !!!

Perhaps you weren't aware of the riot on Whyte Avenue in Edmonton on Canada Day a few years ago, since that time the place is crawling with law enforement officers every Canada Day. What does that say for our society ???

If the US chooses to spend money on the military that is none of our business, and has nothing to do with families that are suffering due to a hurricane that I doubt was Bush's fault !!!

Who did you blame the flooding in Alberta in June on ? Was it the fault of government spending priorities or Mother Nature ??????

[farmers_son]

You are right when you say that if the American government decides to spend money on the military instead of public safety it is none of our business. Emrald1, it was you that started this thread comparing Canada’s reaction to disasters to Americans so please do take exception if I make the comparisons. I do take exception to suggestions that if a similar disaster were to occur in Canada that we would act the same as the Americans. I do not believe there would be shooting in the streets. I have no way to be sure but I would expect our emergency forces to be better organized and prepared. And I have every confidence that our public safety is a higher priority in Canada than I see in the southern United States. No way to be sure but that is what I believe. My opinion.

If you say the hurricane in the Gulf coast is a disaster, I would agree with you. If you suggest that Canadians would act in the same disgraceful manner as the Americans, I respectfully disagree. Disagreement is still allowed isn’t it?

If we are to compare violent crime between the U.S. and Canada, the murder rate in Canada is not about the same as the United States. On a per capita basis, the United States murder rate is 300% of Canada’s. We may dress the same and talk the same as the Americans but Canada is a different society. Yes we have problems as every society does but one does not see the same level of violence here as south of the border.

[farmers_son]

Obviously, I meant to say "it was you that started this thread comparing Canada’s reaction to disasters to Americans so please do not take exception..."

[farmers_son]

And my last comment on this matter...
Anyone wishing to donate or volunteer could check out:

http://myyahoo.volunteermatch.org/volunteers/resources/hurricane.jsp