Bigger farms?

[cowman]

Read an article in one of the local weeklies where they quoted some Harvard professor stating that the demise of the family was a good thing in terms of economic efficiency. He stated that most family farms are too small to ever become truly efficient in marketing and effective use of labor, management, equipment,capital.
Now if you really think about that...the guy might have a point? How can one farmer be an effective manager,worker,repairman,banker and salesman without someting suffering? When you see the obvious success of big factory farms perhaps he is on to something?
He also goes on to say that society would actually be doing the farmer a favor by getting rid of him as he would no longer be subject to overstress due to inefficiency! He sees the present day farmer as over worked and underpaid! He likened it to freeing the slaves!

[magpie]

of course it took a Harvard professor to tell us that !!!!!

Larger farms are a fact, in this area the larger cattle producers have been buying up more land over the past three or four years. Many of the smaller operations are dispersing their herds but choosing to stay on the farm and rent the land out.

[Horse]

As I was combining the other day I thought just how we farmers are like the straw everyone wants the grain but the straw is a nessary evel as is the dirt as in dirt farmer so they put up with us just enough to get what they want.If they ever find a way to get what they want without us lookout.
30 yr ago a farmer with 3 mabey4 1/4s of land was concidered fair sized and made a good living now you are talking 10 times or more and they are not making a good living, the working man is not working 10 times harder or 10 times more production but he is living well , Why do you supose we are left so far behind?

[ivbinconned]

One reason horse is because we are divided. Western canada has over 24 different agriculture lobby organizations...Quebec on the other hand has ONE! Their government fears and listens to them.

Their ag comunity is much healthier as a result.

Ever hear the expression "divide and conquer"!

we've bin conned!

[Jagfarms]

If you look around most of the smaller farms have completed their harvest or have more done compared to the bigger farms. Some big farms that have lots of machinery and man power are finished or finished before the small family farms.

You can only harvest so much land with one combine and if you have another combine or combines how much more land do you have to farm to make your payments?


It is hard to make a living on a small family farm almost impossible. But the bigger the farm the more imput costs it needs more machinery more employees and this all takes a lot more money.

Finding people to work on farms is getting harder all the time. They can make a lot more money in the oil field. To pay the same wages that the oil field on the farm would be tough. Then if you do find someone to work for less of wage they do not have experience and can start wrecking machinery and that gets expensive.

I farm and I am in the custom grain hauling business. I had employees driving my trucks for 5 years and we were real busy all the time. The gross amount of money was pretty good but the expenses and wages were high. This last year I decided to just drive my truck myself when I have time mostly in the winter and the odd day when all the farm work is caught up. The gross is down quite a bit but the bottom line has not changed much and a lot less headache.

[cowman]

How big is big enough? That is a question I often ponder?
Is 200 cows enough? Is 500?
Well despite all the people who think running lots of cattle or growing lots of grain is nothing but a piece of cake, I will tell you no matter what it takes up a very valuable commodity...time! Yep you can work 16 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year and do alright, but when do you have time to enjoy the fruits of your labor? Well don't worry...your kids will enjoy it when you kick the bucket!
Personally I have got to that point in my life where I am not all that keen on keeping my nose to the grindstone? However my son thinks I am his slave or something and is always trying to scare me up some more work!
How much land can one person take care of properly? How many cattle, hogs, whhatever...can he properly care for? When do you have enough?

[cowman]

I look around my community and see people working day and night, their kids are leaving home as soon as they graduate from high school and folks looking older and more worn out by the day. On rainy days they repair equipment and the only time they really take part of a day off is to attend a funeral of other neighbours that left this world and left their families with lots of land, cattle and machinery !!!!

[madcow]

The family farms sure are disappearing around here,even the ones that appeared to be ,if not profitable ,livable.For example in the N.S. dairy industry,in the early 80's we had over 900 milk shippers,by the mid 90's they were down to 6 something, last month news of another dairy selling their quota put the number at exactly 300.Our provincial milk production has been maintained over the period, there are fewer farms with much (much) larger debt loads and more bodies working,with more equipment running and cows milking. But is anyone really better off. I am over worked and under paid,a small family farmer.I don't think the solution is,or at least I hope it's not, to shoot me to put me out of my misery.I don't want put out of business as a favor to me .I would rather starve to death my way than work for a pay check from someone else.
Larger farms are not all that welcomed here by the public either,like I've said on here before.They all want to eat and they all have garbage to dispose of ,but none of them want the land fill or the farm in their backyard.The public seems to view the smaller farms as more environmentally friendly,less smell , and more to their liking as a rural visual pleasure,but do they really support us ?.The Quebec farmers are maintaining the family farms.They have the support of their provincial government.There has been a fair bit of talk lately about the structure of the PQ Federation and how to make the NSFA (possibly) more like it ,maybe we need a framers union!.
Bigger is not the answer for me either ,Jagfarms has it right, about the same time I get ' bigger ' enough to be worth while, I'll have to hire another man,he gets' paid and I'm still broke.
There also seems to be another burr in our underpants, every time we adjust production a little,become a little more efficient,what ever the plan may be.The powers that be soon squeeze us back the few cents we creatively had in our hand.We just can't win in this present system.
I am going to stay small (by today's standards) stay diversified,stay at it(with an open mind) with enough attitude and hope to come out of it.I can see that I'm in a hole,I've stopped digging.! If I wait long enough I hope the hole will fill in with enough dust that I can crawl out.Probably just in time for me to drop dead and the tribe will put me back in a hole again!
Or I could just walk off and burn the house behind me.If they won't help me stay in business,they aren't going to recover some of their loss at my expense.Maybe I'm just having a bad day,but it boils my blood to see people less disabled than I am ,living easy on a pension.AND I WANT TO HAVE THIS STRAIGHT,pensions for disabled people are a wonderful thing in this country,BUT(and these were who I refer to) some around here are not the least little bit inconvenienced ,let alone disabled.They are at the beach on hot summer days,fishing and hunting in the fall, snowmobiling in winter.This one guy climbs up a 20 foot ladder to cut the limbs overhanging his garded. He has the powersaw in one hand, holdihg the laddder with the other.Another day his roto tiller breaks down in the garden, so he walks to his car,opens the trunk ,then walks back to the garden, picks up the tiller and carries it to the car.He's on full disability for his knees and back!!??This is the guy who complained of the flies and smell to the county and the environment dept. when I fed the cattle in his end of the pasture,so I moved them, then he calls the SPCA and says ,there's no feed here and the cattle are neglected when they are fed out of his sight.This is the same guy that shot a 500 lb feeder on his side of the fence and then tried to peddal it around the village ,calls the RCMP if a calf is out next to the road.
But I'm no quitter! any of you guy have neighbors like this??

[cowman]

Well madcow I was beginning to get worried you had felt "slighted" or something like grassfarmer over on the beef side and had decided to quit coming here!
To answer your question: No I don't have any neighbors like...thankfully!
Have quite a few suburbanite type neighbors and one fairly new Dutchman but the rest are mostly old neighbors from 100 years or so! Never hear a peep out of the newbies, other than when I pull them out of the ditch...and then it is very positive! Now mind you I am not in the habit of polluting the country with fresh manure or something! The Dutchman(hog farmer) gets calls all the time when he spreads manure! Still he is a pretty good guy and realizes the benifits of having good farm neighbors!
I would suggest you get some kerosene and a few matches and help your "neighbor" move back to town!LOL

[madcow]

cowman ,I haven't been any where,I have kept reading most everything on here.Just put in a few long days and read the threads and turned in for the night. I'm a one finger typer,toooo long a process for late at night lol.You guys and gals can't 'slight'me away..........the match has crossed my mind,but I guess that would be stooping to his level, back years ago(He lived somewhere else then)he likes to drink and then tell everyone how smart he is, he told me how he created a situation where he got rear-ended (twice) then started a law suit to settle out of court.His other place burned mysteriously ,,,,,,,,,surrounded by neighbors who liked him as well as we do.Only catch is I'm his only neighbor here.

[cowman]

madcow: It sounds like you guys have about the same problems that we have out here. Same old thing...the end of the family farm.
The fact is today the income from a farm just isn't there? Very prosperous farms two decades ago are having trouble paying the bills?
I guess I saw the writing on the wall in the late seventies. I sort of fell into a better business and it allowed me to continue to own the farm.
I had a young family and I will admit I wasn't used to not having any money and hey I like my toys and living a good life! I never thought too much about economizing...more about how do I make more!
Now that is not to say I don't run a tight ship business wise, but I knew I would never be satisfied just getting by!
The little "business on the side"(later businesses on the side) became the main source of my income, although I could have toughed her through with the farm! I believe if the family type farm is going to survive it needs outside income because farming just doesn't pay enough these days? Get big or get out is still the rule of the day if you want to survive as a full time farmer with a decent standard of living. It is sad but true?

[madcow]

been trying to come up with an argument,just my nature of course,but I haven't got one. I'm not quitting the farm ,yet ,just don't know why for sure anymore!Seems like farms don't matter much to N.S. now .Sad but true.

[cowman]

Actually madcow, they don't really matter out here either! Well other than a place to set down some more drilling rigs!
The farmers here are viewed as sort of a nuisance here? Getting in the way of the oil and gas business! Always having to be bailed out of another jackpot!
I would suspect the agriculture sector is going to be in a real pickle here this year, even if these crops come off? My hog farmer neighbor says he can buy feed wheat for slightly over $1/bu in Saskatchewan! Barley is hanging in there, around $1.80...if you can find anybody to buy it!
Quite frankly it looks pretty grim with the high price of fuel and fertilizer. I guess CAIS will have to bail the farmers out once again!
The cattle business is fairly decent again and the hog business is positive, at least in the short term. After the last few years in cattle, it might take several good years to get back where we were. The hog business has shrunk pretty bad and there are not many who are stupid enough to get back in!

[madcow]

CAIS hasn't worked for the farmers here.Smaller diversified = no payment

[redhen]

I've said this before, but it breaks my heart to think that the family farm is an endangered species. I believe the new small farm is our future! We have been successful with the production of eggs and poultry below the "quota radar." We know there is a "template" that works.

With all the niche markets for grass-fed beef, pork, lamb and poultry, and the tremendous advantage Albertans have over the east in terms of poultry quotas (ie, not needing them unless you go over 300 layers, 2000 broilers or 300 turkeys per year) I can't believe the family farm in Alberta is endangered.

I think we need to get creative, learn how to do more with our land base by matching livestock breeds to available forage or topography, and look at value-added products, better marketing, and farm gate sales.

In another thread, people were talking about using the old breeds of cattle to make grass-fed beef production viable. I agree! And consumers are willing to pay a higher price for "heritage" products. They'd go to the moon for grass fed AND a low-fat heritage carcass.

Anything we can do to cut feed costs by using breeds that thrive on grassland, and by excluding "the middle man," will help to put more money in our accounts.

But we also have to work smarter, not harder. Cowman is right: one person cannot be labourer, accountant and sales person. We need to do what we know best, and hire or barter to get the other jobs done.

I also believe that the success of the family farm will depend on excluding the Department of Agriculture. The moment we stop expecting to be assisted or bailed out, and stop depending on government programs to market our product, we take back our power and become fully accountable for our own success.

Here are some thoughts...

Create a website for your farm and products, and register with PayPal so people can purchase your products on-line. Get the internet working for you 24/7.

Add Saskatoons to your farm. Write them off as a windbreak and, with a little care and water, in about 4 years you can host a U-pick.

Consider Community Supported Agriculture, where consumers pre-pay for your products so your start-up costs are covered and your profits and/or losses are shared.

Sell shares in a couple of dairy cows (or goats). Do you have any idea what people are willing to do for hormone-free raw milk? Teach them how to milk, and set up a schedule. Then you're not only providing a product, you're also teaching the next generation how to be self-sufficient.

Don't want to make cheese? Find someone who does, and trade cow shares for product.

Your location is a factor that can affect drive-by sales, but you have options there too. City folks love to go for a drive in the country. Help make your farm a "one-stop shop" by producing more than one product.

We are so darned lucky to live in a province where we have access to superior custom processors of meat, poultry and fibre (heritage sheep and fibre are in great demand too) that it's a shame we can't make better use of them.

I am interested to know what each of you see as your biggest obstacle in making your farm financially successful. How can you turn it into an opportunity?