Christmas election

[FarmRanger]

BUSAN, SOUTH KOREA -- Prime Minister Paul Martin warned yesterday that a Christmas election campaign risks offending not just Christians but other religious and ethnic groups who observe holidays and traditions around the same time.
Full article at:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20051118.MARTINSB18/TPStory

And this from the man who led the charge on redefining marriage.

[cowman]

Martin is using whatever tactic he can to try and turn voters against the other parties. I would imagine that much of the election campaign will come after Christmas, and for those who do not wish to be bothered at their door, they can choose not to answer it. Otherwise its just campaign signs, advertising and the usual drivel that is in the media which we would be subjected to no matter what time of year the election was held. I am sure there isn't one month of the year that doesn't hold at least one or two days of significance to one religious group or another !

[cowman]

I think the rantings about a Christmas election is something the media has created? I doubt most Canadians really care one way or the other...even if they bother to vote!
Look for the NDP, Conservatives, BLOC to come out swinging on Gomery and look for the Liberals to use their old favorite dirty tricks of smearing the Conservatives and bashing Alberta! Never mind all the mindless drivel about what the parties platforms are...no one really cares! It all comes down to this: Do we re-elect thieves or do we take a chance on Neo-Nazis!!! The thieves will try to paint the Conservatives as the KKK in sheeps clothing and the Conservatives will truthfilly say these guys are thieves!
Ontario will now show their true colors....it will be interesting?

[carebear300]

I wonder how things would turn out if there happened to be a big blizzard in Ontario and Quebec that day. Just a thought from a stubborn old farmer that is hoping that just once in his life that eastern canada would have some adversity to maybe upend their little band wagon.

[silverback]

The liberals probably already have all the greyhound buses in Ontario booked to round up their voters and make sure they vote the party line.

[cakadu]

IF they've done their homework, they probably will all have buses and/or alternative transporation thought out. All parties will want to get the most voters out there that they can.

[cakadu]

So, the writ will be drawn up tomorrow. Let the fun and games begin.

From a purely put yourself in the other man's shoes position, imagine how it must feel to have coveted something so badly only to now go down in history as being the first PM to ever have a solely non-confidence vote against you. Must be something to try and get your brain wrapped around.

Maybe Paul can phone Kim and they can comiserate.

[cowman]

Watching the news last night they said the polls show people want a change. Martin will have to show them that he is all about change or else he'll have to get down and dirty and use the old scare tactics! I wonder which way he will go?
The CBC theorized, based on polling, that we were heading for another minority government, probably Liberal!
Apparently the BLOC is poised to basically wipe them out in Quebec and their chances in the west look shaky! Hopefully Goodale and shrill Annie will be gone!
Atlantic Canada is pretty well a shoe in for the Liberals so that leaves Ontario. How will they vote? For change or for thieves?
Myself, I hope Ontario votes Liberal in a big way...enough to give them a majority! Maybe then some people will start to wake up in the west?

[cowman]

no matter what happens it is costing Canadians a fortune, and if we end up with another minority government we could be back at the polls in another year or less !!!!

[cakadu]

That is probably the rub,emrald. If things don't change enough we will see this same cycle yet again. Even worse, we could be paying these guys to not get very much accomplished in the interim as nothing of any value will make it through parliament.

I hope we see more than the 61% turnout that we did last time. If nothing else, maybe this just might get people out to vote.

[cowman]

I suspect the turnout might be lower than 61%, especially if the weather is ugly that day? When less than 2/3 of the eligible voters bothering, what does that tell you?
In the USA the turnout is even more dismal than here. In Canada a large portion of the absentee voters are young people...those old seniors seem to get it done...but not the young...why is that?
Municipal elections are especially poor for voter turnout and yet in my mind they are the most effective system of government? I can call my councillor and get some action right away...or be told I'm crazy, but the darned MLA thinks he is God or something and won't answer! My MP is actually pretty good to deal with.

[cakadu]

The Canada West Foundation is taking a look at that very question, cowman, how do we engage young people in taking an interest in the vote?

Is this a generational thing or is it something that is just getting worse as the years go by? Did other generations ever wonder if their kids would vote or was it something that people did because it was their democratic and patriotic duty to do? I know that for myself, I wanted to get out and vote from the time I was able to. There has to be a reason people are staying away from the ballot box. It would be interesting to try and figure out what is/are the cause(s).

[cowman]

I think this is a problem most democracies are facing?
Maybe it is the fact that a lot of people realize nothing much changes when they vote in a new party...sort of the same old dog with a new leash?
Now personally I don't believe that! Love him or hate him, Mulrooney made some very big changes that we all live with today? Can you just imagine the massive changes we would see if a Jack Layton became the boss?
Here is a very typical problem with a low turnout? In Red Deer County, during the last election there was a question on the ballot "Do you want an elected reeve?" The result was 56% of voters said yes we do. Only 27% of eligible voters bothered to vote, so 15% of eligible voters decided we would have an elected reeve! Then the complaining started...but how can you complain when you didn't vote? Some councillors are saying 15% is not enough to change the system but in a democracy it has to work that way?
Another example would be in the early nineties when the cattle producers in Alberta were asked if they wanted to keep the checkoff mandatory for the ACC? 12% bothered voting and slightly over 6% decided the checkoff would remain!
If people don't want to be part of the decision making process, then what can you do? If the federal Liberals got 37% of the 61% vote last time then 22.7% of the population elected them! In the USA about 50% of the eligible population voted so Bush got in with about 25% of the peoples support!
Sooner or later you have to realize democracy isn't working all that well and that it is much more important to have a system that protects the rights of the individual than "democracy"? We could argue we have that with our Charter of rights and freedoms, but for one thing? They left out the only real right that matters "The right to own property"? Without that right all the rest are meaningless?

[cakadu]

There are vast differences between how the Americans vote versus how we vote. It is a very different system and I believe it goes something along the lines of having the popular - read most votes - and still not win the election because it is the electoral colleges which actually decide the outcome of the election. That is why there was such a hullabaloo last time.

It is my understanding that if they went just by the vote alone, Al Gore would have defeated Bush. It was the same this last time as well. Kerry had a lot of states behind him, but it was the electoral college vote that swayed things. Maybe someone else knows better how their system works and can help to explain it a little more clearly.

[cowman]

It is a different system but then again in Canada the popular vote doesn't reflect the number of MPs? So for example the Green party had a fairly large number of votes but no MPs? Or in Alberta during the provincial election the Alliance had about 11% of the vote but only one MP?
Consider this: In the riding both you and I live in, we are going to always get a Conservative federally and a PC provincially? Now suppose you don't like either, but always vote for someone else that you think has the right answers? After several elections you might get the attitude of why bother my guy is never going to get in and I'm wasting my time? If there was some system in place where your vote mattered(popular vote?) then you would still have an incentive to vote? Maybe we need something like that?
If you are a die hard Liberal or NDP what is the point of voting in our area? There isn't any.