Liberal Agricultural policy?

[cowman]

Suddenly Paul Martin has remembered agriculture! Some rather vague promises and one big one...the capital gains excemption? Going to take it from $500,000 to $750? Paul, where were you the last 13 years? Suddenly you are going to correct for inflation?
Now I wonder if this promise will be like the promise to scrap the GST? Or the promise to scrap the free trade deal? You know how it is "On further reflection we cannot afford to give this tax break/keep this promise made in the heat of an election"!
Who can believe this guy?

[carebear300]

Definately not I???????? The liberal party in general and this man in particular have a past record of deceit when dealing with agriculture. Always way tooo little way tooooooo late!!!!!!!!

[cakadu]

An observation that I've made is that Harper is saying he will reduce the GST by 1% - not get rid of it, but reduce it to 5% over time. Now I don't know about you but saving 1% really isn't going to do much of anything for anyone. Think about those that are barely getting by - we are not all awash in money, even here in Alberta. On $100 worth of groceries that saves a person the whopping sum of $1. For the person that can buy themselves that fancy speedboat for $25,000 they save $250 which, when you consider that they are paying that much for a boat, doesn't really matter much in the grand scheme of things either.

Let's face it, for as much as the GST is hated and despised and been used as an (unsuccessful) tool by previous wannabe governments, it is nothing but a cash cow for any government.

This is where it is important to really hear what is being said versus taking things at face value. So many people have lost touch with the fact that there are a significant number of people that are not making big money at their jobs.

The agriculture policies that Martin is talking about are those that got "killed" when the government dissolved back in November. We are so much an urban nation that many of the politicians are forgetting about us producing folk.

[cowman]

Linda: Of course you realize on the $100 worth of groceries you don't pay any GST...food is excempt?
Reducing the GST was only a small part of the Conservative tax reduction plan? Now a 2% reduction doesn't seem like much but it adds up to a big overall tax reduction and hey 5% is a lot easier to do in your head than 7%?
What is Martins tax reduction scheme and how did the $100 billion in tax cuts he claimed he gave over the last 13 years affect the average person? Don't forget Martins idea of a tax cut was the $4.5 billion he intended to give to the countries largest corporations...before Layton buffaloed him? Part of the reason this government failed was because they were trying to bring that tax cut back into the budget!
Right now in the news there is a lot of noise about whether Ralph Goodale leaked the fact that the government wouldn't be taxing trust funds and thus drove up stocks where "connected" people made millions? The real scandal wasn't that there was a leak but that these thugs refused to tax their buddies laundered money...and announced it three days before an election! Talk about taking care of your special interest groups in the dying minutes?
These trust funds have allowed the robber barons of this country to get away from paying taxes like the little people are forced to do. I wonder how much money they put into Liberal pockets?

[wmoebis]

what amazes me is that the farm problem is not new and has been going on in all sectors for years. yet it is just now that the liberals think that something has to change. They have been in power for years and haven't listened why the big change and can we believe them?

[FarmRanger]

You bet we can trust them!! Remember they said that Mulroney was a crook and they’d do something about corruption….oh ya, we found out what they claimed about Mulroney wasn’t exactly true, but they still promised to do something about corruption!!....hmm, well I’m sure Shawinigate HRDC, and Adscam and voting against their Red book promise of an independent ethics commissioner were just anomalies....you know, they’re looking out for the best interests of Canada....yup, that's the ticket....


Do I get my senate appointment now?

[FarmRanger]

The proposed GST reduction may not seem like much but everyone will save. Martin keeps promising to lower income tax, but that is small comfort to lower income families who will save with the lower GST. The GST saved on even a modest new home would likely pay a couple of months payments. Martin is also promising an improved communication with Provinces, which just makes me laugh. At least Harper intends on giving the north some control over their resources which at this time they do not have.

[farmers_son]

What about the Conservative ag policy? The major difference between the Liberal and the Conservative Ag policy is the Conservatives will get rid of the CWB. Now some will be in favour of that and some will not but in any event prairie voters need to be aware of that important policy difference. I have included a paste from Kevin Hurst:

Conservative ag platform
On Tuesday, it was the Liberals. On Wednesday, it was the Conservative Party’s turn to release an agricultural platform. The Conservatives borrowed a few things from the Liberals. They are calling for a 5 per cent renewable fuel content in gasoline and diesel by 2010. And like the Liberals, they don’t seem to have any plan to encourage producer ownership of ethanol and bidiesel facilities. The Conservatives are also promising to continue with the $755 million in emergency assistance to grain and oilseed producers that the Liberals announced in the dieing days of the government. The Conservatives have been taking some heat for suggestions they would reevaluate this payment. As far as new policies, Stephen Harper is promising separate programs for farm income stabilization and disaster relief. CAIS would be replaced with a program that’s simpler and more responsive. It would be nice to see the details, because designing effective programs that are simple is a lot easier said than done. On grain marketing, the Conservatives say farmers should be able to participate voluntarily in the Canadian Wheat Board. The board monopoly may survive the WTO. Apparently, it wouldn’t survive a Conservative government. The Conservatives had the same policy in the last election and it didn’t seem to hurt their results on the prairies. I’m Kevin Hursh.

[FarmRanger]

Planning on using a “good idea” from another party has been done many times before in Canada. Wage and price controls, GST, etc. The difference is that the Liberals tend to campaign vehemently against their opponents suggestions and then do a flip flop after they get elected.

I hate to respond to farmers_son’s accusation about getting rid of the CWB, knowing what strong feelings people have on both sides. I will point out though that the conservatives are planning on making the CWB voluntary, and not getting rid of the CWB which appears to be what Hirsh suggests as well? (If f_s didn’t read Conservative proposals filtered through partisan Liberal interpreters he would realize this?) Aren’t they planning on making it similar to what Ontario has right now? At the risk of getting blasted, I will ask why does a voluntary wheat board work in Ontario, and somehow won’t the same thing won’t work here in the west? Just a question, I’m not taking sides here…..*FarmRanger ducks back in his foxhole awaiting the barrage*

I found this site from an actual Conservative with questions and answers about a voluntary CWB.

http://www.davidanderson.ca/questionscwb.htm

[silverback]

Yes, why does it work in Ontario, but would devastate the west?

[cowman]

I wonder if the single desk has served us well? If the CWB are so great they should be able to survive with the Cargills and ADMs of this world.
The problem is simply a matter of two positions? One is the communist view of state control(Liberal and NDP) the other is freedom for the individual(Conservative)! Further this state control only applies to one area of the country is a great injustice that has no place in a free and fair society. It isn't about what the majority wants(mob rule) but about your rights as an individual?
I certainly hope neither the Liberals or the Conservatives put up cash for farmers to own or operate ethanol/biodiesel plants!...let the NDP keep that particular promise?
Let the Huskys of the world do it...they know what they are doing?
If farmers own the industry it is unlikely it will succeed and the taxpayer will be on the hook for billions! Leave the technical and business end of it to the people who know what they are doing?

[farmers_son]

Cowman said “If farmers own the industry it is unlikely it will succeed and the taxpayer will be on the hook for billions! Leave the technical and business end of it to the people who know what they are doing?”

Although this has nothing to do with either Liberal or Conservative ag policy I thought that statement just could not be let lie. Although you obviously have a stereotype of farmers in mind the reality is that there are people who are farming the land and raising the livestock who would be completely able to serve in executive positions of the largest corporations in this country. There are farmers operating enterprises that are quite large and complex in their own right, there is nothing to say those farmers could not operate any business they chose to. In fact I think it is fair to say that someone who is able to stay viable in today’s farming economy already have demonstrated considerable skill in management.

Farmers are capable, intelligent, hard working, entrepreneurial, innovative, and even competitive. There is no reason to believe that farmers cannot diversify into value added enterprises and be successful.

[farmers_son]

I agree with your comments farmer_son.

[cowman]

Never said farmers couldn't run a business, but like anything else you have to know what the hell you are doing if you want to play with the big boys?
Haven't been a lot of success stories when farmers get too far away from what they are doing? I guess without a doubt they can bring in some high priced management but bottom line is if the boys overseeing the mangement don't have a clue what they are doing, things often go sour? In fact quite often the high priced management ends up screwing them...then goes to work for the competition!
I find it amusing that a bunch of partimers think they are going to compete with the Huskys and Cargills of the world! Sorry it won't happen.

[farmers_son]

Actually there are quite a few success stories of farmers moving up the value chain and reaping the benefits associated with vertical integration upwards instead of waiting for others to integrate downwards.

Ocean Spray Cranberries is a farmer owned cooperative that markets nearly all the cranberries in North America.

Since 1948, The United Farmers of Alberta Co-operative Limited has successfully and profitably served the retail and agricultural needs of Alberta farmers.

In Canada, agriculture co-ops reported combined revenues of $19.6 billion in 2000. Marketing co-ops accounted for 80 per cent of revenues, particularly dairy, and grains and oilseeds. Farm supply co-operatives reported the largest increase in revenue between 1996 and 2000, from $2.8 billion to $3.3 billion. Total membership in agricultural co-ops was 468,000 with 58 per cent of that reported by farm supply co-ops.
• Co-operatives in Ontario and in the four western provinces provide selling services for replacement and finished cattle. Coopérative Fédérée de Québec and several of its member co-ops process about 25 per cent of all meat in that province.
• Co-op Fédérée controls half of the retail poultry market and 65 per cent of the slaughtering market in Quebec. ACA Co-operative Association Limited has a leading role in poultry processing in Nova Scotia.
• Co-operatives linked with the BC Tree Fruit Marketing Board account for the largest fruit and vegetable co-op marketing effort in Canada. Norfolk Fruit Growers in Ontario and Scotian Gold in Nova Scotia also have substantial market shares in their regions.
• Vineland Growers Co-operative has the distinction of being the longest continually run farm co-operative in Ontario. With facilities located throughout the Niagara Peninsula's fertile fruit belt, it provides service to more than 300 members.

U.S. producer-owned cooperatives play a major role in U.S. agricultural trade, accounting for more than one-tenth of the total value of exports. Cooperatives export every major commodity -- from bulk grains and feeds to high-value branded products.

That doesn’t even mention off farm business operated by farmers that are successful and indistinguishable from any other business. You seem to be thinking of the grain cooperatives and their recent change to publicly traded businesses with substantial ownership by American multinationals. One should not forget the positive role these farmer owned businesses played for over two generations during which time they prospered while forcing Cargill and others to a minor role.

I think farmers getting their fair share of the consumers food dollar by diversifying up the value chain is not even a option in todays marketplace, it has to happen simply to survive. Todays farmer has the knowledge and sophistication to be successful in any competitive market and the Cargills and Tysons of the world are more vulnerable to competition than you appreciate.