Liberal Agricultural policy?

[cowman]

I wonder if the single desk has served us well? If the CWB are so great they should be able to survive with the Cargills and ADMs of this world.
The problem is simply a matter of two positions? One is the communist view of state control(Liberal and NDP) the other is freedom for the individual(Conservative)! Further this state control only applies to one area of the country is a great injustice that has no place in a free and fair society. It isn't about what the majority wants(mob rule) but about your rights as an individual?
I certainly hope neither the Liberals or the Conservatives put up cash for farmers to own or operate ethanol/biodiesel plants!...let the NDP keep that particular promise?
Let the Huskys of the world do it...they know what they are doing?
If farmers own the industry it is unlikely it will succeed and the taxpayer will be on the hook for billions! Leave the technical and business end of it to the people who know what they are doing?

[farmers_son]

Cowman said “If farmers own the industry it is unlikely it will succeed and the taxpayer will be on the hook for billions! Leave the technical and business end of it to the people who know what they are doing?”

Although this has nothing to do with either Liberal or Conservative ag policy I thought that statement just could not be let lie. Although you obviously have a stereotype of farmers in mind the reality is that there are people who are farming the land and raising the livestock who would be completely able to serve in executive positions of the largest corporations in this country. There are farmers operating enterprises that are quite large and complex in their own right, there is nothing to say those farmers could not operate any business they chose to. In fact I think it is fair to say that someone who is able to stay viable in today’s farming economy already have demonstrated considerable skill in management.

Farmers are capable, intelligent, hard working, entrepreneurial, innovative, and even competitive. There is no reason to believe that farmers cannot diversify into value added enterprises and be successful.

[farmers_son]

I agree with your comments farmer_son.

[cowman]

Never said farmers couldn't run a business, but like anything else you have to know what the hell you are doing if you want to play with the big boys?
Haven't been a lot of success stories when farmers get too far away from what they are doing? I guess without a doubt they can bring in some high priced management but bottom line is if the boys overseeing the mangement don't have a clue what they are doing, things often go sour? In fact quite often the high priced management ends up screwing them...then goes to work for the competition!
I find it amusing that a bunch of partimers think they are going to compete with the Huskys and Cargills of the world! Sorry it won't happen.

[farmers_son]

Actually there are quite a few success stories of farmers moving up the value chain and reaping the benefits associated with vertical integration upwards instead of waiting for others to integrate downwards.

Ocean Spray Cranberries is a farmer owned cooperative that markets nearly all the cranberries in North America.

Since 1948, The United Farmers of Alberta Co-operative Limited has successfully and profitably served the retail and agricultural needs of Alberta farmers.

In Canada, agriculture co-ops reported combined revenues of $19.6 billion in 2000. Marketing co-ops accounted for 80 per cent of revenues, particularly dairy, and grains and oilseeds. Farm supply co-operatives reported the largest increase in revenue between 1996 and 2000, from $2.8 billion to $3.3 billion. Total membership in agricultural co-ops was 468,000 with 58 per cent of that reported by farm supply co-ops.
• Co-operatives in Ontario and in the four western provinces provide selling services for replacement and finished cattle. Coopérative Fédérée de Québec and several of its member co-ops process about 25 per cent of all meat in that province.
• Co-op Fédérée controls half of the retail poultry market and 65 per cent of the slaughtering market in Quebec. ACA Co-operative Association Limited has a leading role in poultry processing in Nova Scotia.
• Co-operatives linked with the BC Tree Fruit Marketing Board account for the largest fruit and vegetable co-op marketing effort in Canada. Norfolk Fruit Growers in Ontario and Scotian Gold in Nova Scotia also have substantial market shares in their regions.
• Vineland Growers Co-operative has the distinction of being the longest continually run farm co-operative in Ontario. With facilities located throughout the Niagara Peninsula's fertile fruit belt, it provides service to more than 300 members.

U.S. producer-owned cooperatives play a major role in U.S. agricultural trade, accounting for more than one-tenth of the total value of exports. Cooperatives export every major commodity -- from bulk grains and feeds to high-value branded products.

That doesn’t even mention off farm business operated by farmers that are successful and indistinguishable from any other business. You seem to be thinking of the grain cooperatives and their recent change to publicly traded businesses with substantial ownership by American multinationals. One should not forget the positive role these farmer owned businesses played for over two generations during which time they prospered while forcing Cargill and others to a minor role.

I think farmers getting their fair share of the consumers food dollar by diversifying up the value chain is not even a option in todays marketplace, it has to happen simply to survive. Todays farmer has the knowledge and sophistication to be successful in any competitive market and the Cargills and Tysons of the world are more vulnerable to competition than you appreciate.

[cowman]

You are comparing apples to oranges? Ethanol and bio deisel are not food products, they are energy products.
What happens if the government sets up a farmer co-op to produce ethanol or bio deisel and then mandates a 5% blend?
Either the oil companies are going to produce their own or buy it from the co-op cheaper than they can produce it? I don't believe the government could force the companies to buy it from a farmer type co-op?
As a taxpayer I would certainly not want my tax dollars going into a government funded industry that would not be able to compete without massive subsidization. If it is such a rosy financial proposition then the proposed ethanol/biodiesel co-ops should trot down to the local bank and see what they think? That is sort of where the rubber meets the road and the dreamers get a true dose of reality?
How fair is it for any private business to have to compete with taxpayers dollars? How would you like it if the government set up a state farm beside you...a farm that did not have to make a profit, but lived on the taxpayers dollars, expanding on your formerly rented land, driving up the price of fertilizer and other inputs in your area? Selling their product at a loss? Is that fair?

[farmers_son]

Perhaps we were thinking of different things. I read back and see the quote of Kevin Hurst did mention ethanol.

To respond to your comment...Government is involved in private business all the time if no other way than taxation. The example that comes to mind is Hutterite colonies that do set up beside my farm and compete for land and equipment without paying income tax. Sorry to bring up a Hutterite example but it is year end and I am working on books to try and figure out where I am tax wise.

Government is involved in all areas of agriculture even if they do not set up a farm next door. Dairy farms compete for feed and sell cows into the beef market while having a special status through marketing boards. Chicken is supply managed and competes for consumers dollars with beef. Government allows or disallows foreign companies into Canada at their discretion changing the dynamics of the marketplace.

I have not researched the ethanol bio diesel issue very well but there may be environmental benefits. I have not too much love for an oil company and would not loose much sleep if government worked to create an alternative energy source.

[cowman]

Personally I think alternative energy sources are a good idea. Keeps the oil and gas sector on their toes and makes them compete.
The problem is all these alternative energy sectors do need some seed money to get the technology up to snuff so they can become a viable option.
We seem to have too much grain in this country and no place to sell it. Rather than putting the farmers on the dole it might be helpful to create a market for some of this surplus grain and at the same time help reduce pollution? Both ethanol and bio deisel are pretty clean.
I truly believe we can't keep ruining our environment at the rate we have been doing.
I am involved in a small way in a process that should see at least one bio digestor being built in my area. It is not cost effective and will rely heavily on government money for starting up. Unfortunately big business is not all that interested yet, but hey you have to start somewhere?