surface leases

[cowman]

cowman, I agree that we do need utilities, resource extraction etc., but every possible avenue should be explored to mitigate the negative impact on the people who have to live and conduct their business within the shadow of this 'growth'. This transmission line isn't just a simple power pole, it is an eyesore to say the least, one which I doubt many of us would want to look at everytime we looked out our front window.

[cakadu]

Cowman, it is great to have all those things, but should we keep exploiting our natural capital at the expense of future generations who have no say in what we do today? Even those of us here today have absolutely no say in what happens on or around our land. We can fight the good fight, but at the end of the day we all know who is going to benefit and it isn't the common person.

The *****on Dam was never meant to become a hot recreation area and the ASP does not allow for any additional permanent residences around the reservoir. If I'm not mistaken that is what several groups, including the Red Deer River Naturalists, sought out and won in terms of the development.

Beyond being an absolute eyesore, how would you feel about your family, including grandkids, living within the confines of two high voltage transmission lines? Which one of them would you like to be the canary for the power companies? The studies the power companies turn to all state that there is no problem living in or around the lines, yet there are countless other studies that show the exact opposite.

How fat, sassy and rich do we have to become before we take a look at what we have caused irreparable damage to? Let's face it, only a certain number of people are gaining the wealth, the rest are becoming poorer and the gap keeps growing ever wider.

What happens when you have enough leases, pipelines, transmission lines and right-of-ways across your land that it is rendered virtually useless for agricultural purposes? We talk the good talk about preserving agricultural land and the right to farm, but how are we doing in that regard?

At the end of the day, cowman, you can't take any of it with you. In economics one is taught the Diamond Water Paradox which is basically that one day water will be more valuable than diamonds. Is that the kind of legacy we wish to leave for future generations?

[cakadu]

good points Linda. Your comments are similar to the comments that I heard recently regarding AAFRD's vision for growth in the livestock industry by 2010. The individual in question is a municipal councillor for a northern municipality and her comments were ' the desire to cover the province in livestock and manure cannot come at the detriment of those who wish to reside and enjoy a quality of life in rural Alberta'.

Once every pot hole in Alberta has been turned into a recreational area, and every mountain area is full of condominiums for the rich to enjoy, it will be far too late to grasp the importance of leaving some of this province in its natural state.

In my own municipality there is a quarter of crown land adjacent to the highway with a recreational lease on a portion of it. The County is the leaseholder and the Metis local subleases and manages the campsite.
The rest of the land is left in its native state with the exception of a couple of oil leases, but it has been interesting to see the proposals that have come from various groups within the community lobbying the province to allow development on the land, most of which didn't make any sense at all. Thankfully so far the province has turned thumbs down on any proposals and allowed the land to remain in its native state.

[cowman]

Well I don't decide these things? And no I wouldn't want a transmission line close to me, but if the powers that be said it is necessary then not much I could do about it? Just like you are finding out?
Whether we like it or not, in Alberta, we are caught up in a boom of unprecedented growth? And whether we like it or not natural capital or agricultural concerns are going to take second place to economic developement? The land east and south of Red Deer is going under pavement as fast as possible and without a doubt this is some of the best land in the county.
Despite all the rules or plans that might have been made for Glennifer Lake, I think you both realize the desire to develope it isn't going to go away? Too bad we didn't have a crystal ball and could see it in 20 years from now? I suspect it will look similar to Sylvan Lake!
The fact is people desire to live by water for their vacation homes and there isn't much around Red Deer County? Three lakes, one man made.
Personally I would think a large power transmission line like the one proposed would make more sense out in a less populated area, but then I'm not the one paying for it? I'm not the one who decides?
If the government has decided that is the way to go, and if the government is the people...then what can you do? In a democracy that is just how it is.

[cakadu]

Cowman, no one is denying that we are in a boom and that it is a relatively good thing. I say relatively because we are moving ahead so fast we have no idea of the damage we are creating at the same time. We have no benchmarks to know where we are at. There are countless studies on wildlife habitat - bears in particular - water, natural capital etd., yet we continue to ignore the studies and carry on our merry way. We commission more studies so it is perceived that something is being done.

I don't think anyone wants to see the economic boom come to a screeching halt - shades of the early 1980's come to mind - but shouldn't there be something done about the footprint we are leaving behind?

There are questions that need to be answered and not just regarding money. How badly do we need this line? There are reports out there that say we are currently over producing electricity, so why do we need to build more? What about the co-generation plants i.e. biodigesters etc. that are going to be coming onstream at some point in the future? They too, should be able to put power into the grid, so why the rush to build these high transmission lines now? Who benefits the most?

Will there be some oil or power line executive on their deathbed saying "if only I could have gotten that last hole spudded in, or that last tower constructed my life would be complete?" I doubt it.

We keep forgetting that these are not our resources to do with as we like. They belong to all Albertans, current and in the future. What would we find if we came back for Alberta's 200th birthday? What would we seen then? If David Thompson could come back today, what would he be thinking?

As for any development around the *****on reservoir, wouldn't you see that being curtailed by the fact that there will be two transmission lines going right by the place? I know that there are people with land around the dam that are hard pressed to keep still because they want their land to be included in the development, yet there will be others who do not want the land developed. If the only way we can see value in a natural area is to develop it, then we have really missed the mark.

Bottom line - what sort of legacy do we wish to be remembered for?

[cowman]

Linda: Personally I am not all that keen on all this development taking place here. It won't do me much good although my children will benifit somewhere down the road.
I think in everyones life there comes a time when you have enough? Enough money or toys or whatever makes your world go round? The trick is to realize that...and that has always been my problem!LOL
However I don't think it is fair to take away opportunities for others just because I might think differently than them or be satisfied or whatever.
The fact is this energy company built the generation plant with the blessing of the government? The government must have known they had to have a market to sell the production? There is a demand for this electricity?
On a side note: The proposed biodigestor in Red Deer county might not produce any electricity, but sell their production right into the pipeline! The electric grid penalizes small producers that is nothing short of a scandal! The Alberta government doesn't want small alternative energy suppliers competing with their buddies in the electricity business...plain and simple! If people only knew how they have set it up to protect an "electric monopoly, based on fossil fuel" they would be shocked!
The proposed biodigestor(s) are actively pursuing a methane gas solution, to the extent they have put out proposals to various gas companies to buy their production. Because it is "green" they have some very serious interest!

[sagewood]

I find it interesting that we have all made the assumption that all this electrical power and CBM gas is being developed for use for us in Canada. In fact, talk to any of the oilies and they will tell you that these pipleines head directly to Chicago to feed the enormous demand on the eastern seaboard of the USA. The eastern U.S. population is demanding more gas, more electricity and more water and they are looking north to mine all that they need from Canada. The electrical dereuglation was not so much to help our market level out and bring in cheaper electricity to Albertans, but to bring cheaper electricity to the Americans--as with the gas that flows to the east, we in this province pay for the transmission costs and they reap the benefits. With gas, not only do we pay transmission costs, the easterners get to sort off the sulpher content and sell it for fertilizer at their end. This all brings the cost of their gas to a much lower amount that what we pay. World-price indeed--Chicago sets the price and we pay.

I have an interesting article on what Brazil is doing to wean themselves from imported oil. Nearly 40% of all fuel sold within their country contains at least 25% ethanol made from sugarbeet cane. Brazil expects to be self-sufficient within a few years. Flex engine vehicles are selling like hotcakes and for the same price that regular fuel burning vehicles are priced. Billions of dollars are flowing into the Brazil ethanol sector and the country's rural economy has received significant benefits. The article goes on to talk about airlines converting their planes and so forth.

So if a country like Brazil can make this change, I ask you why cannot a country like Canada make a similar change. Certainly the rural economies would get a huge boost from canola oil actually being worth more than $5 a bushel (especially when the cost to plant and harvest it is equal or more than that cost some years). With more land going into oil production, perhaps other grains would then not be over produced and their price could rise--etc. etc.

The reason that we in Canada cannot change our way of doing business is that we are shadowed by 'big-brother' the U.S.A. and their big oil interests run our oil patch and sometimes, I do believe they also run our government. I don't care who is in power in this province, they are a slave to the dollars that are pumped into their coffers by big oil--until our government can see benefit to them personally from alternative fuels, we will continue to be bombarded by these unsound practises that turn a beautiful piece of land into an industrial zone where neither man, nor beast wishes to live.

If any of you want the 'Brazil' article to read, let me know...

[cakadu]

From what I understand cowman, many of the people being confronted by this powerline are not at all happy it is going to go ahead and don't see it as an opportunity at all.

As for all the drilling activity, it is a shame that many producers are getting into deals because they have to in order to eat and pay a few bills. Makes you kind of wonder if there would be so much signing going on if things were better in the ag sector?

Let me reiterate, I'm not advocating stopping it all - I'm for taking a long hard look at what we've done in order to know where we should be going. With all the surplus the province is enjoying and is predicted to enjoy over the next year at least, shouldn't a decent percentage of that, say 10%, be put into trying to at least mitigate some of the damage we're doing?

[cowman]

Well I won't go too far into it but the fact is the days when we sent raw natural gas to Chicago and Sarnia are long gone? All the gas in the Nova gathering system(practically all of Alberta) goes to the cracking towers at Empress and Cochrane. What leaves the province is pure methane.
The other fact is ethanol, bio deisel, and things like a bio digester cannot compete with fossil fuels...at this time? The fact that the government basically has to legislate their use should tell you something? Now that doesn't mean they can't compete somewhere down the road. Every industry has to walk before they can run?
Linda: Sorry, I don't get to decide where the Alberta government spends our money!LOL Hopefully our leaders know what they are doing when they decide these things? If you don't like the job they are doing I guess you get your say on election day.