Shooting up Toronto

[cowman]

I see the gangsters had another gunfight in Toronto with some innocent girl dead?
The CBC figures this will bring the handgun thing to one of the hot topics in the election? No mention of who the outlaws were who did the shooting although it was pretty apparent when they were interviewing all these black kids?
How about, instead of banning legal handguns, we ban the gangsters? Deport them, whether born here or not!
The fact is these hoodlums are members of organized crime families from Jamaica and Haiti and they make their bread and butter in the drug trade, extortion, prostitution etc. Ship them out of here and the problem is solved.

[FarmRanger]

I heard an interview this morning on CBC with Toronto’s mayor Miller who was aping Martins gun control policy. He also suggested community programs, etc. as a means of getting these youth out of gangs. Typical left wing reaction, he’s appalled and angry and the reasons that youth gun violence is up is that the supply of guns is up, and that we need to cut off supply. 2nd reason, that there is cutbacks of programs that help the ethnic youth from these neighborhoods.
Is this guy inhaling? These gangsters are making pots of money selling drugs and prostitution and he thinks they’re going to go to the community centre to play free basketball? Never a mention of actually policing and putting the culprits in jail? These kids were obviously running around with guns in their pockets (not registered). Make extremely stiff penalties for illegal possession and/or use of already restricted weapons and you’ll get these thugs off the streets.
Quit hamstringing the legal system with lax enforcement of law and you’ll do something about gang violence. Would you testify against one of these thugs knowing he’ll be out in 6 months (or less)to exact revenge? What’s the incentive for police to arrest them, knowing they’ll get a slap on the wrists from some liberal judge?

When asked about handguns being already greatly restricted, Mayor Miller basically ducked the issue and listed community relations with police, and that the supply of guns is too large, but never addressed the fact that handguns are already heavily restricted. The mayor revealed in one sentence exactly why he’s supporting Martins gun ban - “In Toronto, the vast majority of people oppose gun ownership”. Exploitive politicking at its worst diverting attention from the real problem. I agree that gangs shouldn’t have guns as well, but unregistered restricted guns in the hands of gangs is already illegal! How about some stiff penalties for breaking the law? This would do more for safety than banning already heavily restricted weapons?!

The lost budgie blog has a good article on this topic:
http://lostbudgie.blogspot.com/2005/12/toronto-boxing-day-shootings-wimp.html

[dalek]

I'm in Toronto at least once a month. I think the problem is that handguns are too HARD to get. We need to have a free handgun clinic, where the gangbangers can get handguns like heroin addicts get syringes. Then they can just have it out and get the killing over with and let the police mop up whatever's left after, say, 3 weeks.

[dalek]

cowman, where in hell do you suppose they are going to deport people who were born here ???? The days of putting people on ships and setting them out to sea to banish them from one country or another are long gone. I agree with you regarding deportation of anyone convicted of a gun crime, and I also feel we need to tighten immigration laws to ensure that we aren't bringing another country's problem into our own, but having said that there are a lot of crimes committed by Canadians that were born and raised here.
The drug trade is an epidemic and the lax sentences handed out to those who are charged with trafficing is a joke. In our community meth labs are everywhere, kids are hooked on the stuff at as young as 12 in some cases, and break and enters are an epidemic, and Lord knows this community is not alone.

I don't think that youth are the ones that start the process of drug use, and gang violence, somewhere in the mix has got to be adults that are responsible for some of it, and they should have the book thrown at them, and until we get rid of the Liberal appointed judiciary it isn't going to happen.

[cropduster]

dalek and farmranger...GOOD GUN CONTROL...........When you can hit what you`re aiming at nine times out of ten!Sometimes I think ,like some US states where you can carry handguns exposed, that everyone would think twice about doing something stupid because there just might be someone nearby with an equalizer!

[FarmRanger]

I’m not sure that having decent citizens “packing” would have made a difference? If you had a handgun in your possession, would you have opened fire on either of the 2 gangs that were indiscriminately shooting at each other? I still think cracking down on the thugs who perpetrate these crimes would do infinitely more good than a ban on already restricted handguns. Our ludicrous non-application of law is the problem. Banning handguns would be no more effective than banning knives, clubs, sticks, cars, or anything else that criminals would use to kill people. Spouting useless rhetorical nonsense in an election campaign just reinforces the obvious need for change.

[FarmRanger]

My thoughts on handguns have always been that they are much easier to access in the heat of the moment during an argument vs having to hunt up the 22 or rifle and ammo !!!
Martin and crew will get votes in Toronto because of the proposed handgun ban, but things will not likely change if the Liberals form the government. Gangs will still be around in Toronto and so will handguns.


I was interested to see that Tina Keeper is running for the Liberals in Churchill. Guess gun control won't apply to natives so she should get that vote !!!!

[shamus]

I said as much in a sports forum from Toronto in their open forum and had my post deleted! I said punt out the liberal gov't and the Liberal party who put them there and punish to the fullest extent of the laws that are there. Everybody is right about the eastern presses only recognizing the Liberal way!! It makes me want to puke!!! Time to split from the east...

[cowman]

Emerald: It is a little late to be careful about immigration? We already have these bad boys here?
How about deporting the ones we can deport and maybe ship the ones who were born here up to Baffin Island or something? No way out, no guards, air drop them some rice and beans once in awhile? Let them murder each other to their hearts content? A cheap way to take out the trash!

[cowman]

Walking Tall all over again cowman !!!!!
I agree its time to get tough and hopefully if Harper forms the government he can carry though with his promise of who ever does the crime does the time. Of course the bleeding hearts like Layton will band together with the Liberals and bring a conservative government down the first time they try anything that makes sense !!

[cakadu]

To play devil's advocate for a moment, and before we get too carried away locking everyone up, bear in mind that it costs anywhere between $40 to $55,000 per year to house EACH inmate and that is without any kind of special handling. Prisons are already filled to capacity and in many cases are bursting at the seams. This can and does create all kinds of problems, particularly for guards in terms of safety, working conditions etc.

I am no bleeding heart - if they have done the crime, then they do the time. I am also horrified that this has occurred and my heart goes out to all the families affected by this.

Where are all those convicted of crimes going to go given the current capacity of our correctional facilities? How many more prisons are we going to have to build? or are willing to build? In the US, inmates sometimes serve as little as 1/6 of their sentence before they are paroled. Here it is a minimum of 1/3 before they are eligible for parole, depending of course upon the crime, the sentence and the rehabilitation.

One also has to bear in mind that those on the street are far from calling the shots. Think of it as an inverted iceberg with those at the tip being pretty insulated from ever going to jail.

We've had drugs, everything illegal you could name in this country for a very, very long time. It is a sad fact that since the Americans declared a war on drugs, the drug problem has gotten significantly worse. By doing the same here, could we expect anything different?

The answers aren't as simple as they first appear - as is the case with almost anything.

[cowman]

You are very correct Linda about the high cost of keeping these boys in prison...that is one reason we should be deporting them as soon as they commit the crime?
Obviously the war on drugs isn't working...prohibition never does? Someone is always going to take a run at the big money? And while the drug scene is totally ugly the fact is two "government drugs", tobacco and alcohol, kill more people than street drugs ever will.
My nephew was home from Thailand over Christmas. He said basically over there, there are no laws in country. Try to smuggle dope and they execute you. He said two guys tried to rob a bar and one waitress was killed the police shot it out with the robbers killing one instantly, wounding the other. The sargeant then finished him off as he lay in the street! Instant justice!
He also says there are no gun laws. You can pack whatever you want wherever you want! Not sure if they have much of a crime rate as nothing much is illegal there. Kids who get into minor sc****s get beat with a bamboo stick down at the police station, not jail time.