crown land

[jdavis]

I was wondering how others in the beef business feel about the ridiculously low A.U.M. charge on cattle grazing on crown land ,approximetly 10% of the annual rate on deeded land ie.$1.39 plus taxes plus recieve resource revenue in northern alberta as compared to $20.00 to 24.00 per A.U.M. 0n deeded land.

[ggilchrist]

That was one of the reasons the legislation was changed.

[jdavis]

yes changed in legislation but not proclamed law and the govmt is still jerking around with the procedures of implementation ,so nothing has changed yet. The free grass and resource revenue still flow.

[oilcan]

Do you own cattle?

[jdavis]

Yes I own cattle and that is why I find it very hard to compete with other producers getting a free ride

[oilcan]

What recommendations would you suggest to remedy this allocation of resources?

[jdavis]

I would suggest a aum comprible to private sector rates and only damages to be paid to lease holders no anual compensation or entry fees as they should belong to all albertans . They should have to compete with other producers on a fair and equitable bassis . Or these leases should be put up for auction upon renewal not just renewed and assignable(sold). The rest of us have to sell on the same markets as lease holders so why do they get paid to have thier cows eat the grass.One example a producer has a lease that pastures 300 cows for 5 months it costs $3000 per year plus there is oil revenue involved how much they will not say but you can bet it is more than the annual rent. Yes they fenced it but a fence is capitalized over 10 yr and the lease is renewable and assinable(or saleable ) after,so the cost is fully recovered.

[oilcan]

What is the current legislation towards resource revenue on crown land? Are the holders entitled to all, partial or nothing?

[jdavis]

The lease holders are intitled to negociate the same as freehold owners are there some limits as to how much they can hold out for. Pipe lines are for entry and damages only and annual rent on well sites is not as high as on freehold land. Are you a lease holder or agricultural producer, you seem to have some intrest. Are you from Alta. Trere is a lot of info on the govmt web site as to the # of leases and amount of acres and moneys paid out in anual rent but does not get into sisemographic activity . The Alta Cattle Commision spent a large sum on a economic analysis 1976-1996 and they will share the results for $20.00 I guess that is a deterent from to many people asking for thier results. It is kind of odd that the govmt recieves app 3 million$ for land that the resouce companys pay app 40 Million in annual rent to the lease holders. Good for the app 6000 leasees but not so good for the 25to 30 Thousand beef producers who all sell on the same market.

[oilcan]

Crown lease holders should be awarded for good stewardship, but all resource revenue should be used to benefit all rural communities. There is a need for more resources to build rural overpasses, MRI's, policing, schooling, and most importantly the benefit of having good stewardship for this crownland. A crownland resource revenue fund should be established, keeping the resources within the agricultural communities where they are most needed, not the general coffers, where there can be more waste and mismanagement of such resources. Administrated with help from the rural citizens from these communities. As an Alberta producer, I have seen both sides of this issue first hand, know many of the producers that do get resource revenue and those that do not, what is not needed is more mismanagement by urban politicians with no understanding of how easily it would be to correct this situation.

[jdavis]

I understand you are a livestock producer. Do you feel it is fair the way crown land is administered. As for being rewarded for good stewardship that is some kind of doublespeek to cloud the issue. If I rent land from an individual I have to abide by the agreement I do not get a reward for doing my part other than the privilage of renewing my lease when it is due , so why should lease holders get free rent and resource revenue for living up to their obligations. If they can not farm without welfare then they should move on to some thing they are more suited to.

[plowjockey]

I agree with oilcan on this issue. I am a Beef producer in Sask where the Gov. took the resource money away on our crown lease land when they built up a huge debt. I would have liked to have seen that money spent where we could have seen the results not buried in Gov. paper. As far as Competition goes I can not see that one producer or the few that have leases are geting rich and if you are in cattle you will know that it is a long term deal and to jump in and out on a yearly basis just for the sake of competition is not logical! It opens the door for bad stuardship!

[cowman]

I agree with jdavis to a certain degree but I wonder if the rates are a lot higher in other parts of the province. Maybe a more realistic rate would be more fair and it certainly seems unfair that leaseholders recieve the resource revenue. The problem is these leaseholders, in many cases, bought these leases with the understanding that this was the deal and paid accordingly. Is it fair to change the rules now without some form of compensation? Leases can be bought and sold by anyone and we do live in a market economy that has some rules about private property. And I do believe that the courts have ruled that crown leases are real property. So how do we deal with that in a fair way?

[jdavis]

On the Alta gov web site on public land it says "lease holders pay app 3.5 mill in rent and is estamated they recieve 40 mill in annual resource revenue on one large lease the rent is less than $30,000 and recieves more than $400,000annualy. on one small lease less than $650. rent but recievesapp $75.000 a lease holder in east central alta would recieve app 2.000 first yr and 1,000 per yr annualy and pay only 200 in rent and taxes. Now I would say some are getting rich and they sure dont need cows to do it.Plus they still get the use of the grass that is what they are supose to be renting not oil wells . It puts any one with a grazing lease at a real advantage . If the young people could get a deal like that mabey some more would give farming a try.