Consider this?

[farmers_son]

farmers_son, the one difference between you working long hours on the farm and not having much family time, and the oil patch worker doing the same is that many of the oil field workers are hundreds of miles away from home, they don't get to see family for weeks on end where I am sure you at least get to say hello in passing during your working day on the farm !

Office jobs in the oil patch aren't always that attractive, in fact, some of the higher stress jobs are in office jobs in the energy sector !!! At least in a farming situation we all know what is going to give us stress from day to day or year to year: Low commodity prices, weather, machinery breakdowns etc. In the energy sector we could have one boss in the morning and find the company sold and a whole new company philosophy by nightfall !!!

I agree we have been content with low returns in agriculture, but there are those that are making a good living at it, and seem to flourish, so is it because they work harder, produce a better product or just happen to be in the right place at the right time with a product the buyer wants ?

[farmers_son]

Could be their apparent affluence has more to do with having less debt and living off equity. I am curious…how many farmers can we loose before it is a problem, assuming we are not there yet. Would it be a problem if in another 10 years half the farmers are gone? Two thirds of the farmers gone? Although you may not see it along the Hiway 2 corridor, in a lot of the province rural depopulation is a big problem. Or does anyone really care if anyone lives out in the hinterlands? I heard or read somewhere that the Alberta government has studies in their hands that suggest within a generation there will be only 30 communities in the province. Maybe that is just fine. Cheaper that way.

The loss of farmers and rural depopulation is not happenstance. It is planned, it is accepted and it is the result of government policy but it can be stopped if the will is there.

[farmers_son]

I live an less than five minutes from Highway 22 but am over an hour from Highway 2 farmers_son.
Land in this area isn't worth anywhere near what land is worth along the Hwy 2 corridor, or east and west of either Edmonton or Calgary for that matter. I think that lower debt load and equity pay a large part in whether farmers can afford to remain in business, but with the lower debt or having debt retired completely comes the likely fact that the farmers in that position aren't spring chickens anymore and may be close to retirement.
Its a tough business and certainly cannot be considered a lifestyle anymore, lifestyle doesn't keep the wolf from the door !

[cakadu]

Farmers_son, we might not be seeing depopulation as such but make no mistake about it, producers cannot afford land along the QEII corridor, at least not to farm anyway.

We are fighting a different battle though, seeing good farm land being paved over to accommodate the sprawl from cities and larger towns. Trouble is that these municipalities have the right to grow and where to do they go but onto farm land.

At one time producers made up less than 3% of the population and I daresay that number is moving rather quickly to less than 2%. We'll be doing another census this year so that should help tell the tale somewhat.

Agricultural development and rural development will generally be negatively correlated, so how does one fix that? How do you get urban folks interested in preserving farmland?

I agree wholeheartedly with emrald, the oil patch is no easy life and it certainly takes its toll on families. The oil patch is red hot right now, but it wasn't all that long ago that it was barely moving i.e. when it was $11/bbl.

For those of us that saw the oil bust of the 80's, one has to wonder exactly how long it will go on and how many people are going to be caught once again. It is so easy to get credit these days and many people are buying on a whim, but heaven help them if interest rates creep up. Remember when mortgages were 18%?

[cakadu]

In my community Hummers, Escalades, Navigators are a common sight everywhere, money is flowing like water, but some of us remember all too well the high interest and the bust of the 80's !!!
The size of the new homes being built is mind boggling, considering the cost of heating and taxes etc. There is such a need for accommodation for people working in the area that one Realtor has been buying up old houses and having them renovated into rooms to rent out at $90.00 a night !!!
There is certainly an opportunity with the boom in the oil patch for spin off income for folks but how long it will last is any body's guess, although the forecast for 2006 sounds positive.

[cowman]

I sicerely doubt this boom is going away anytime soon. Things are a little different than the early eighties? For one thing we can't screwed by eastern Canada? Everyday we should get down on our knees and thank Brian Mulrooney for the free trade deal!
In addition new rules and regulations on the environment in the USA(those evil non Kyoto boys) have created a huge market for our methane gas that won't go away? Add the increased production of the tarsands and new technology that makes them very competitive? And on top of that it doesn't look like the middle east will ever be without turmoil in our lifetime?
Iran recently defied the world and started again on there quest for the bomb? Now while Europe and North America wring their hands and make vague idle threats...know this: Israel will never let that happen! Look for a big war...probably as early as this spring! Hmmm I wonder what that might do for a barrel of Alberta crude?

[farmers_son]

No economy based on two primary resource industries can be considered strong with a massive discrepancy between one primary resource sector and the other. At some point farmers will wake up and smell the coffee.

They will begin to understand the reason they have to leave their farms and work away from home for weeks is because the government is supporting the oil industry through cheap royalties and accelerated exports while leaving agriculture to wither on the vine. At some point farmers will begin to wonder why grain farmers in this country struggle to compete with U.S. farmers who receive massive subsidies through the U.S. farm bill while governments at home say they cannot afford to offer similar support for our farmers. At some point farmers working at their oil patch job are going to realize if they received the same level of support that a U.S. farmer did they would not have to work off farm. At some point Canadian farmers are going to figure out that if Alberta was not subsidizing oil and gas exports through cheap royalties that they could work full time on their farm and drive a decent truck just like the oil patch guys.

At some point farmers are going to realize that the farm crisis they are experiencing is a direct result of government policies that refuse to support Canadian farmers at a level that would be comparable to the U.S. We sell our oil and gas to the U.S. at U.S. prices but we expect our agriculture to get by on Canada prices.

[Ron]

I am working in Ontario for a couple days and I was asked today why the west (Alberta) sells its energy to the US instead of supplying the east with cheaper energy. I couldnt find the words to answer. get freaking real. The conversation then changed to the CWB and I couldnt do any better.
They are nice enough people but what a different viewpoint.
They are torn because the liberals seem corrupt but they still love big government. (job creation)

[dalek]

Farmers son, just watch the dollar rise. Soon enough we'll be getting paid for our commodities in US prices, but our Canadian suppliers will still be charging us prices based on a 75 cent dollar.

[dalek]

What part of Ontario are you working in? Can't be around here, there are more Green Party signs on lawns than Liberal, and the Conservatives have 5X all parties combined. Some of the most staunch Liberals I know are voting Green in the advance polls because they can't stomach contributing to a Conservative or NDP win but won't vote Liberal.

[Ron]

I am in Sarnia for a couple more days, the guys I am working here are union refinery workers, quite urban oriented. (I think the union end may contribute to a different viewpoint). Just had supper with our salesman and he mentioned how the east helped us out for years so why shouldnt we share the wealth (that was about Ralphs $400 bonus). I asked when they helped us out and he thought about 20 years ago, he had no idea what the NEP was. He is about 30 years old, is a great guy but the regional viewpoint is astounding. No idea of why we feel alienated in canada. Where are you Dalek?

[dalek]

Almost exactly halfway between Ottawa and Toronto. Try to get out of Sarnia into some of the rural areas of Lambton county, I think you'll find the people more to your liking.