Consider this?

[Ron]

I like the people here, they are very friendly but I am sure not going to discuss politics, just drinking beer and hockey. I heard some comments on a town hall meeting on the radio on sat night, it sounds familiar (I am losing my ass and the liberals dont care. For years they said there was no money for agriculture, now there is a budget surplus and surprize, still no money for agriculture). Farmers have the same input cost squeeze nation wide (at least something unites us).
I talked to one fellow today that farms 400 acres of black muck? He said he lost 30,000 last year. Any auction sales out east? Last time I checked Ritchie brothers had 68 sales booked for spring (before christmas).
I am glad my 600 acres lets me work off farm because if I was big enough to be full time I couldnt make it.

[cropduster]

I agree with what you say about our regionalized eastern neighbors Ron.They are basically `good` people with a different view.If more of them could be exposed to our ways they would think similarly.Did you see the TV program about the Liberal girl brought west by the tv reporter?It seemed she lost her "center of the universe" opinion very quickly.Please don`t be afraid to offer that to your eastern coworkers.Hopefully it will be worth the risk of alienation!!We all need to do more of it.I`d like to travel more to Quebec...since I`m starting to believe they hate Ottawa more than we do and are actually willing to DO something about it.It`s just that I don`t agree with their methods,but would rather start there the with those that LOVE big gov`t.

[cakadu]

One of the other things that really hurts agricultural expansion is the lack of R & D tax credits that are available to those in the energy sector. If agriculture had some of the same support that the oil patch got, we might be talking about something.

It might not go away cowman, but we don't control the "tap" so to speak and the price of oil can go down just as fast as it came up. Based on what emrald has said I don't think it would take as much of a disaster as was witnessed in the early 80's to have people end up hurting real bad. We're not much different in terms of the Hummers, Navigators and fancy homes going up. Much of it is bought on credit and if interest rates go up, people will be in trouble. It was less than 5 years ago that oil was on $11. I don't think we should get too complacent about the longevity of this latest boom. Remember, what goes up must come down at some point.

[cowman]

Oil could go down but I wouldn't hold my breath. The only thing right now that might be a problem is if Ottawa tried to make a grab for the oil, such as a new NEP? Probably called "Kyoto"!
The days when we had to subsidize the east with cheap oil are hopefully gone forever?
I doubt the people out here would stand for it ever again?
farmers son: I hate to tell you this but the policies that have discouraged agriculture have come from the federal government? Trade is a federal responsibility? In fact the Alberta government has done more for agriculture than any other provincial government, except Quebec?
It might be helpful if we have a federal government that is more in tune with the American government? It might be helpful to have a federal government who views the west as someting more than a bunch of hick rednecks that provide a cash cow?
On Jan. 23 you get a chance to send a message to Ottawa? Don't waste the opportunity!

[dalek]

Ron there are a few auctions but mostly in this area the people who are quitting don't have much left that's worth selling anyway, they're just dumping the cows through the sales barn, hanging onto a tractor for piddling around the yard, putting the worn out equipment in the fenceline and putting anything good in a dealers yard on consignment. Last salebarn sale I was at (2 weeks ago) the best bred cows were going for about $650 (Charolais X, due late Feb-early March) with good bred Herefords going for $250-300. One of our Holstein dealers just brought us 6 fresh cows to milk until he sells them, he hasn't been able to move them for a while and the last guy that was keeping them kicked them out.
Anybody that only lost $30,000 on 400 acres this year was doing VERY well. Most in this area lost $150/acre or more, and we have some of the lowest rents in the province.

[farmers_son]

Cowman: Regarding subsidizing the east with cheap oil and never doing it again. That is right, we can never do it again because NAFTA would not let us.

Whether we kiss up to the Americans or not it might be helpful if we had a government that would put in place the equivalent of the U.S. farm bill. Not to say that I support that kind of program but the U.S. farm bill is not going to go away and we simply cannot stay in business here in Canada trying to produce commodities that are essentially priced in the U.S., with inputs like fertilizer and diesel and machinery priced in the U.S. and pay for it with a much lower made in Canada level of farm support.

And while Canadian farmers have received farm support from our government in the last few years it was either drought support or BSE support. The U.S. producer is guaranteed at least $2.15 for every bushel of barley he can grow. On top of that he receives a $0.28 per bushel direct payment on his historical yield. Total of $2.43 minimum he can receive for his barley. If the price of barley goes up the producer gets it. There is no cost to the producer to participate in the U.S. farm bill. On top of that the producer is yield protected to 75% of the county’s normal yield if there is a crop failure.


And what about NAFTA? One of the key features of NAFTA was that Canada could not have a made in Canada energy policy. The price of our energy had to be priced in Canada at the U.S. price. Prior to NAFTA we used to buy fertilizer at made in Canada prices with a few tricks thrown in to make it cheaper for Canadian farmers. Since NAFTA our fertilizer is priced basis the U.S. Gulf plus freight to Saskatchewan. Alberta fertilizer prices are typically higher than in Saskatchewan.

The reason we see as many Canadian farmers having to work off farm is not because we do not work as hard or are as good managers as the Americans. It is a direct result of Canadian farm support which does not come even close to making us competitive with the Americans. We were fed a line, and Canadian farmers fell for it, that Canada could not afford to support our farmers. Well now Canada is the strongest economy in the G8, that excuse does not fly any more if it did then.

Bottom line, if our farmers do not stand up and demand a fair shake then there will not be many farmers left. The “fewer farmers” policy is working.

[cowman]

farmers son: I don't think we are far off in how we think on this one. I do agree that we need to harmonize our subsidies/ tax structure if NAFTA is going to work for both countries.
The important thing here is no longer can one area of the country(or industry) be forced to sell their product at below world prices for the "national interest"? I would suggest the same thing has happened to western grain in the past through the CWB?
The funny thing about all these "made in Canada" solutions in the "national interest" is the one usually getting screwed is the west and the one doing the screwing is Ontario and Quebec?
The American farmer gets a better deal from their government. We need to have a level playing field.